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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dale Baker who wrote (12339)	2/16/2006 6:02:39 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541931

I'm not going to beat what I'm sure will quickly become a dead horse. But... If you set out to cut taxes or fill a Supreme Court position and do so, you have accomplished something. The opposition might perceive that an undesirable accomplishment but it was an accomplishment. If you set out to reform Social Security and don't, it's a failure. The opposition might consider that a desirable failure but it was still a failure. If in the course of things, you maintain an attitude that either doesn't sit well or endears you to the world, it may cost you a failure in some of your objectives but it isn't in itself an accomplishment or a failure. It's instrumental, not terminal. the administration has destroyed many decades of US credibility as a leading voice on human rights Bear in mind that credibility on human rights is your objective, not theirs. They're not trying to accomplish your objectives but rather their own. Some prism action going on here. End horse beating. <g>

To: Dale Baker who wrote (12339)	2/16/2006 6:11:46 PM
From: Suma	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541931

Exerpted from another site posted by Cnyndwllr for whom I have great respect as a Viet Nam Veteran and very insightful critic of this war... Maybe this is what you mean Dale about credibility For those who persist in magical thinking and are drinking the latest Koolaid, try this: msnbc.msn.com Excerpts: WASHINGTON - Democracy is a great idea. Or maybe not. The early returns are in on the Bush administration’s strategy of trying to democratize the Middle East and elsewhere. The news isn’t as the president and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would have hoped. All around the world, countries and peoples — Iran, Lebanon, the Palestinians, Venezuela, Bolivia — keep having elections and keep electing candidates committed to terrorism or virulent anti-Americanism. .... On Wednesday, several members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee demanded that Rice explain whether her strategy is working in the interests of America. Are the elections making the world safe for democracy and for America? .... “The Pew (Center) has just done a poll: our standing in the world has never been lower," the California Democrat said. "If you think that’s good for America, that is fine, but I would say we need to do better… We need to have the people of these countries feeling good toward America and electing candidates that are feeling good about America.” Sen. Chuck Hagel, R- Neb., a potential 2008 presidential contender, gave a wide-ranging four-minute statement, in which he voiced weary pessimism. “I don’t see, Madame Secretary how things are getting better,” Hagel said. “I think things are getting worse; I think they are getting worse in Iraq; I think they are getting worse in Iran; I hope the Hamas development will start to develop in a different direction….” Do we talk to the winners? Hagel was followed by Sen. Lincoln Chafee, R-R.I., who has often been a harsh critic of Bush’s foreign policy. Chafee said that after elections have been held in Iran, Bolivia, Venezuela and elsewhere and anti-American candidates won, the Bush administration simply does not talk to the winners. Reality...even faith can't change it. But keep spending the lives of our soldiers and digging the hole deeper just in case. Ed