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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Edscharp who wrote (10132)2/20/2006 3:24:28 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22250
 
Re: Now you lamely try to link the situation in Nazi Germany with the Iraq War as if one has anything to do with the other.

Expert Likens Saddam To 1930s Hitler

WASHINGTON, August 1, 2002

(CBS)
Former CIA Director James Woolsey warns that Saddam Hussein "poses the same kind of threat to the United States that Hitler posed in Germany in the mid 1930s when the British and the French kept postponing dealing with him in the way that some people are advocating dealing with Saddam how."

Interviewed on the CBS News Early Show, Woolsey added that Saddam is "working hard" to obtain nuclear weapons to go along with Iraq's chemical stockpiles.

The Senate holds a second day of hearings Thursday on the question of going to war with Iraq, while President Bush discussed the issue with Jordan's king.
[...]

cbsnews.com



To: Edscharp who wrote (10132)2/20/2006 5:22:29 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER  Respond to of 22250
 
Re: The Nazis mass murdered many millions of slavs, serbs & Jews [and Gypsies and disabled] during WWII, a crime that has been documented beyond the reasonable doubt of rational people.

American Eugenics and the Nazi Regime

By Thais


To understand how the Nazi regime grew to power in the 1930's, it is important to observe that which influenced the political and social thought of those in positions of power and influence. By far the most significant factors in the German rise to power included a fanatical push for population control, racial hygiene, the science of racism and the study of genetics, and a worldwide depression.

Today we hear very little of U.S. involvement on the side of the Nazi movement, though our role in the science of eugenics was drawn upon by German physicians, eugenicists, and propagandists to promote themselves and their ideas during the regime. Hitler accredited eugenics in America as the most important factor influencing his policies on racial and hereditary science. Mainstream history continually underemphasizes the Nazi connection of American eugenicists, instead claiming that only an unimportant and marginal wing of the eugenics movement reacted positively to such measures of mass sterilization, special support for "hereditarily valuable" couples, prohibition of miscegenation (marriage or sexual relations between those of different races), and euthanasia (voluntary or otherwise). The reality, however, is that the U.S. played an important role as a model of a country in which eugenic sterilization and immigration legislation (which was founded on biological principles) were at least to some degree successfully implemented.

The U.S. was widely acclaimed by Germans for their role in implementing such measures as the sterilization of those considered a threat to a clean hereditary line, or those who had a mental or physical disability, so as not to breed more of a "degenerate" race. Those affected included those hereditarily blind, deaf, mentally or physically handicapped, the psychiatrically ill, sexual "perverts", fathers who had more than two illegitimate children, and habitual criminals. The first law on sterilization in the United States was passed in 1907 in Indiana, which made mandatory the sterilization of the handicapped. From 1907 to early 1920, 3,233 people were sterilized. In the 1930's, the rate was about 4,000 sterilizations per year.

The U.S. Supreme Court sided with the eugenicists and the general public in support of the aforementioned measures[*]. At one point a bill in the house, which was under serious debate, would have eradicated the "lowest" 10% of the American population. In 1927 they passed a decision which ruled in favor of the constitutionality of compulsory sterilization. Said the Supreme Court, "It is better for all the world if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind."

Aside from governmental support of such measures, many influential powers in society also offered a helping hand, either by contributing financially, conducting studies on genetics, publishing books promoting scientific racism, etc. Prominent figures in support of eugenics and the Nazi rule included Leonard Darwin [son of the British naturalist Charles Darwin], Alexander Graham Bell, Charles B. Davenport, Herbert Hoover, Charles Eliot (President of Harvard University), David Starr Jordan (President of Stanford University), the Pioneer Fund [http://www.pioneerfund.org/ ], and the Rockefeller and Carnegie Foundations. In the 1980's, there seemed to be a resurgence in the studies of racial inferiority in the U.S. Roger Pearson, an anthropologist and promoter of the theory that "the white race has been endangered by inferior stock for more than 30 years", and well known for being authoritarian and neo-fascist, succeeded in combining his right wing politics with an academic career as a college professor and head of the Institute for the Study of Man in Virginia. In 1982, Ronald Reagan wrote him a letter commending his "valuable service" and voiced appreciation for his "substantial contributions to promoting and upholding those ideals and principles that we value at home and abroad."
Looks like eugenics isn't dead today either.

Propaganda seems to be the most important link between Nazi Germany and the United States. The propaganda served many purposes, such as quelling much of the opposition by promoting the notion that Nazi race policies were of scientific character and politically necessary, and by convincing the German people that Germany served as a model for other nations. Favorable statements by well known scientists from other countries gave the German people the impression that scientific communities abroad favored Nazi race policy and viewed it as compatible with scientific knowledge. Nazi's relied on the approval of foreign scientists to further their propaganda efforts outside of Germany. Statements by non-German scientists were more credible than were those of German scientists, who were often regarded as mere puppets of the new regime.

Unfortunately for Germany, foreign support was wavering. At the beginning outbreak of World War II, American eugenicists and geneticists prepared a resolution against Nazi race policy called the "Genetic Manifesto." It was prepared and supported primarily by scientists from the United States. It demanded effective birth control and the emancipation of women, stressed the importance of economic and political change, and condemned racism against ethnic minorities. In the late 1930's, American eugenicists became more interested in how eugenics measures in Sweden, which had developed a comprehensive program to support large hereditarily healthy families, could combine with a sterilization law; they were searching for a model that combined democracy with eugenics. International criticism focused on the possibility that this power could be abused if applied specifically to ethnic minorities or political enemies. The shift away from interest and support for Nazi Germany and its Law Preventing Hereditarily Ill Progeny was because of opposition to the totalitarian political regime, not because of the Nazi eugenics program.

Public criticism of blatantly anti-Semitic Nazi policies rose.[**] Important figures in the genetics movement died or retired. Discoveries in genetics contradicted the scientific basis of scientific racism and eugenics. Germany retaliated by pointing to a hypocritical double standard in American society. They pointed to strict segregation between the whites and blacks and gave references to the lynching of blacks and the failure of an anti-lynching bill in the Senate. They also pointed out the law in 30 states preventing the marriage of blacks and whites. An article in the Nationalsozialistische Partei Korrespondenz stated, "the nigger would well be surprised that the white American becomes outraged at the elimination of Jews from German universities, while they do not consider the exclusion of Negroes from American universities." The final withdrawal of American support of Nazi policies came when the U.S. sided with the allies against Germany during World War II.

Today historians mask the truth of American involvement and influence in Nazi race policy and propaganda. The United States's history of scientific racism is unheard of in textbooks and as a general rule, goes unspoken of. It is important to realize that this movement is not gone in its entirety, but instead has been absorbed into particular institutions in society today. To escape its bad name, "eugenics" is now found in many cases to be hidden behind such field names as "human geneticists," "population scientists," "psychiatrists," "anthropologists," "sociologists," "anthropologists," and "family politicians." Eugenicists attempted to separate themselves from the legacy of the Holocaust by eliminating ethnic racism from the official agenda of eugenic societies. Many scientists continue to engage in providing findings for genetic differences between races. Scientific racism, which is known to be almost entirely a strictly German phenomenon should also be recognized as an American one.

profaneexistence.com

[*] β€œIt is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind...
Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”

[1.1] Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. in Buck v. Bell
healthsystem.virginia.edu
faculty.uml.edu

[**] As Stefan Kuhl noted in his seminal monograph(***), part of the rift between Nazi eugenicists and their American fellows lay in the fact that American anti-Jewish feelings were not so much about anti-Semitism as about anti-Judaism... Somehow, mainstream Protestant America had the same attitude towards Jews as the Catholic Church: conversion to Christianity provided Jews with a ready way out of their ostracism. Unlike 1930s Germans, Americans viewed racism as basically a white vs black divide and were not appealed by the Nazi breakdown of the "white race" into sub-categories. Contrariwise, it made no sense for Nazi Germany to found her racial order on the segregation of Negroes!?! Before the 1950s, non-white immigration in Germany (and, more generally, in Europe) amounted to no more than a few hundreds of people....

(***) amazon.com



To: Edscharp who wrote (10132)2/20/2006 10:25:53 AM
From: sea_urchin  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 22250
 
Ed > The Nazis mass murdered many millions of slavs, serbs & Jews during WWII, a crime that has been documented beyond the reasonable doubt of rational people.

Let's put that into perspective. Bad as the crime was, it pales into insignificance when compared to mankind's other atrocities. Indeed, it is mankind, itself, which should be in the dock, and not only the Nazis.

reformed-theology.org

>>*Under Lenin and Stalin, the Soviet government became the greatest mass-murderer in history. Lenin's collectivization and purges of 1921-1922 caused 4 million deaths. In 1932, Stalin ordered the Ukraine starved to enforce collectivization and crush Ukrainian nationalism. At least 8 million Ukrainians were murdered. Others resorted to cannibalism.

From 1917 to Stalin's death in 1953, the Soviet Union, worshipped by leftists around the world as the acme of human political accomplishment, shot, tortured, beat, froze or starved to death at least 40 million of its people. Some Russian historians claim the true figure is even higher. In an ugly spasm of deja-vu, Russian troops slaughtered 80,000 Chechen civilians over the past two years.

*In China, Great Helmsman Mao Zedong had 2 million 'class enemies' shot when the communists took control. Another million Tibetans and Turkestani Muslims were 'liquidated' from 1950-1975. During Mao's crazy Great Leap Forward, in which China's farmers were collectivized en masse, an estimated 30 million or more people starved to death. Another two million are said to have been killed in Mao's Cultural Revolution.Total: 35 million dead.

*Hitler was responsible for the deaths of 12 million civilians, half of them Jews. The Nazis exterminated people because of race; the communists because of class or nationality. Hitler killed with gas; Stalin with bullets, cold, and hunger.

Some two million German civilians were killed in 1945, and at least 200,000 died in communist concentration camps from 1945-1953. The victorious Allies handed back 2 million anti-communist Soviet citizens to Stalin in 1945: he had half shot, and the rest sent to Arctic death camps.

*During World War I, the Ottoman Empire slaughtered or starved up to 2 million Armenians, the first great genocide of the new century.

*In the early 1960's, 600,000 ethnic Chinese were massacred in Indonesia by government-encouraged mobs and soldiers.

*During the Marcos era in the Philippines, 75,000 Muslims were massacred by government paramilitary gangs.

*In 1971, Pakistani troops killed tens of thousands of Bengalis in former East Pakistan. Indian security forces and police have massacred great numbers of tribesmen in border regions, and many civilians in Kashmir and Punjab.

*In the 1980's, Ethiopia's marxist regime denied seeds to 'capitalist' farmers, causing a million people to starve to death.

*A half-century of tribal massacres between Hutu and Tutsi culminated in the recent slaughter of half a million Tutsi civilians by Rwanda's Hutu government.

*Serbia's nazi-nationalist regime conducted the massacre of 200,000 Muslim civilians in Bosnia.

There are many other examples. But just the figures cited above amount to almost 100 million deaths this century β€” deaths that were not caused by war or revolution, but by the conscious decision of tyrants, politicians, or bureaucrats to murder great numbers of their own people for reasons of ideology, religion, race or land.

Compare: 100 million people murdered by governments this century; 75% by communist regimes β€” to about 38 million killed in all wars and conflicts. <<

For Whom The Bell Tolls
John Donne

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.



To: Edscharp who wrote (10132)2/20/2006 6:56:34 PM
From: sea_urchin  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22250
 
Ed > The Nazis mass murdered many millions of slavs, serbs & Jews during WWII, a crime that has been documented beyond the reasonable doubt of rational people. (2)

news.bbc.co.uk

>>British historian David Irving has been found guilty in Vienna of denying the Holocaust of European Jewry and sentenced to three years in prison.

He had pleaded guilty to the charge, based on a speech and interview he gave in Austria in 1989.

"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," he told the court in the Austrian capital.

....author and academic Deborah Lipstadt, who Irving unsuccessfully sued for libel in the UK in 2000 over claims that he was a Holocaust denier, said she was dismayed.

"I am not happy when censorship wins, and I don't believe in winning battles via censorship... The way of fighting Holocaust deniers is with history and with truth," she told the BBC News website. <<

nysun.com

>>I don't find myself agreeing with the prime minister of Iran about many things, but about one thing, I believe, he is right. It is inconsistent to claim, in the name of freedom of expression, that a Danish newspaper has the right to publish any cartoon of Muhammad that it wants and at the same time to have laws, as do at least seven Western countries, outlawing denial of the Holocaust.

Mr. Ahmadinejad has a point. Either freedom of expression exists as a general principle or it doesn't. If it doesn't, Muhammad cartoons should be bannable even in a democracy. If it does, denying the Holocaust should be permissible, especially in a democracy.<<