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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: carranza2 who wrote (13873)	3/4/2006 11:57:49 PM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543629

My most educated guess, FWIW, is that she is not going to be elected. Whether Hillary gets elected or not will depend largely on how Bush fares in the final two years of his Presidency. If you watched the Mrs. King funeral. vintage Clinton was on display over there. He is one who will be extremely successful in getting out the vote, particularly the African American vote. The last time Bill Clinton was on the road for an election it was 1996. Gore ran away from Clinton and paid the price. Clinton was bed ridden during the Kerry campaign. If he is healthy in 2008 and is on the road campaigning for the Democratic nominee and if Bush really screws up then the Democratic nominee is unstoppable no matter what the right wing bloggers say.

To: carranza2 who wrote (13873)	3/5/2006 7:17:33 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 543629

I think part of the answer is that they both carry the whiff of corruption for which they have not paid or for which they have not been exonerated. I don't find that a satisfactory answer. A "whiff of corruption" hovers around politicians, in general. Why this particular whiff sets some folks off so effectively is the question.

To: carranza2 who wrote (13873)	3/5/2006 11:09:15 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 543629

It's terrific to see you finally grind down to an elemental level, a place closer to political reality. But that is not "what this is about", unfortunately. But you got close, very close. Just love the condescension you can't seem to resist. I think part of the answer is that they both carry the whiff of corruption for which they have not paid or for which they have not been exonerated. I know you are aware of the numerous examples so I won't repeat them, and I hope you'll agree that these numerous examples are, at worst positively indicative of corruption and, at best, deeply suspicious. Because of this, they will be pilloried for anything controversial that either do. In order to win the Presidency again, Hillary and Bill therefore need to be cleaner than Caesar's wife. This is utterly elementary, but they don't seem to fully get it. The hyper character of this is what is most interesting to me, not the general taint that can and should attach to anyone who gets enough money to campaign for state or federal office, via the horrible way we do campaign financing in this country. Certain elements on the right, to repeat myself just "hate", the only word that leaps to mind (impeachment for personal affairs, leap at whatever is going on in this Dubai ports issue, hint at all the extreme right wing rumours that came out of the Clinton WH, etc.). And/or the always present attempts to damage her political future on the basis of personal smears. It's something we all live with and something that continues to contaminate the general political culture. I think she lacks the political skills and intuition to play the political game as brilliantly as he did, and therefore may slip before it is all over. She'll get a lot help. I disagree. She won a senatorial race in 2000 going away. And her NY state favorables continue to improve. I think two things are problems for her should she choose to run for the Dem nomination in 08 and the presidency. First, is her wooden platform speaking style. She just can't get folk enthused with that style. Second, is the right wing smear machine. She'll handle all the outrageous stuff similar to that thrown at Kerry much better than he did. And hopefully, the political culture will have less patience for Swift Boats sickness. But we can't know for some time. As for the more interesting questions as to whether she would be a good president, for me, that's a comparative one. Since it's been obvious that Bush has been among the worst, if not the worst, that comparison is simply moot. In addition, however, to date, she looks better than anyone the Reps could put forward. On the Dem side, we don't know all the applicants yet, so I'm going to wait. Since Lieberman cannot and should not get the Dem nomination, it goes without saying that she would be a better president that Joe.