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To: jackjc who wrote (37844)	5/22/2006 11:13:05 AM
From: grusum	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39344

HUP is dependent on the the understanding that the measurement can only be taken once, in that exact instant of time. it cannot refer to past measurements. in order to measure position or momentum precisely, you must give up knowing the opposite. you can know both, but not at the same time. when you take measurements in the quantum world you are going to affect the outcome. but it will be in an unknown and haphazard fashion. HUP is not haphazard and unknown, it is predictive. even if you could negate the effects of observer interference when taking the quantum measurement, you'd still have the HUP that can't be overcome. it doesn't even matter if you measure for position when you 'know' that something is at REST! the measurement for position STILL can't tell you much about momentum. you can say that the object was at rest, but you can never prove it with the measurement you just took. and if you measure for momentum, you then can never precisely prove its position with the measurement you just took. observer interaction with a quantum measurement is not the HUP. the analogy was good.

To: jackjc who wrote (37844)	5/22/2006 1:51:07 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39344

Good explanation jack. Everything that happens in the quantum world happens in Einsteins big world except quantum wave action. As you see the interference by the oberserver is just too small to see. Planck's constant is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000066-lol. And that is the holy grail. What causes the quantum wave action to collapse as things get larger? Some sort of interaction, but what? I have read the largest thing science has gotten to stay in the wave state is a 60 molecule buckball. I have read lots of discussion regarding what causes the superposition to collapse, but it remains a mystery. Regarding the double slit experiment: Scientists have tried every trick in the book to fool the particles into staying in the wave state when measuring or observing them and have never succeeded in fooling them. Particles also seem to be able to go back in time. Quantum physics is like magic. You or I could be trasported next week to the planet zeno just based on probability and that sure seems like magic to me.