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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: sea_urchin who wrote (11092)	6/5/2006 12:10:20 PM
From: philv	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 22250

I don't mean to flog this discussion to death, but the matter of the Promised Land is the essence of the problem. Is it not a fact, according to biblical record anyway, that Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt to the promised land, although he died and personally never actually saw it? The confusing part for me is that the actual location of the promised land was known, in the time of Moses. And so the Israelites eventually occupied it, and made Jerusalem the capital. However, if I understand you, you do not agree with this historical account? The Israelites did "grab" the land way back then, as the land was not empty. But that land, from everything I was ever taught, is the Jewish "promised land". The idea that Jews should now live in dispersion, all the while knowing where their "promised land" is, must indeed be a very difficult and harsh way of life, as it is the tendency of people to unite in one location based on common ethnicity and religion. But I now have a new understanding of the term "wandering Jew" .

To: sea_urchin who wrote (11092)	6/20/2006 11:09:42 AM
From: Cyprian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

In fact, there are and always were many Jews who opposed the idea of the State of Israel. Quite apart from it being against the tenets of the Jewish religion With all due respect Searle, you have demonstrated repeatedly on this board that you don't have any knowledge of such religious matters, and you openly admit to such. You have it completely backwards. The Jewish religion has always been Zionist! I explained this several times on this board but apparently you aren't interested in learning the truth. The Jews have always wanted to recapture their ancient land which they were cast out of nineteen centuries ago. God simply wouldn't allow it until recently. Why, as an admitted atheist, do you propose to come on this board and speak about religious matters you have no knowledge of?

To: sea_urchin who wrote (11092)	6/20/2006 11:14:16 AM
From: Cyprian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

it also places the Jew who lives in the diasporah in an impossibly hard predicament -- is he a citizen of Israel or of the country in which he lives? And, quite clearly, being a loyal citizen of one country means one cannot be a loyal citizen of another. Why should he care about Israel if he lives in another country? I will tell you why. Because of his foul and filthy religion. That's the only reason. There is no other reason why he should care about something that happened nearly 2,000 years ago, even if he could prove that it happened to his relatives. Are you concerned with what land your relatives were cast out of 2,000 years ago? Do you even know who your relatives were 2,000 years ago?

To: sea_urchin who wrote (11092)	6/20/2006 11:56:19 AM
From: Cyprian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

Of course, the Zionists have managed to get around this little problem by confusing Zionism ( = support for the State of Israel) with Judaism ( = observance of the historic Jewish religion). I think it is you who are confused. Have you ever even read the Old Testament? If not, then how is it that you abrogate for yourself the task of explaining to us anything about the historic Jewish religion? The historic Jewish religion COULD NOT be observed anywhere outside of Jerusalem. When the Jews were cast out of their land they could not observe the law Moses delivered to them. All you have to do is carefully read Deuteronomy 16 to understand this. God gave them specific precepts that must be followed exactly. He ordained that the law could not be observed outside of Jerusalem according to his foreknowledge and inventive wisdom. Because before the foundation of the world God had a plan for ALL mankind, not just the Jews. The self-centered Jews did not want to share the blessings of Jesus Christ with the rest of the world, they wanted all the promises and blessings only for themselves. So their diabolical solution was to crucify their Maker and Benefactor, in an attempt to blot out His name from off the earth. God is omniscient and knew all this ahead of time, and allowed all this to take place according to His divine plan. The Jews wanted to blot out his name, but in reality they unwittingly helped accomplish the exact opposite. His name became glorious and His fame spread throughout the entire world, and will never be extinguished forever. The Jews hate the name of Christ, and they hate the trophy of His victory, the precious Cross, and still stubbornly fight against him to this day -- of course to no avail. It's hard to kick against the pricks. So Christianity and Judaism have always struggled and been at enmity with each other. That this would happen was prophesied thousands of years ago by blessed Moses, long before Christ had come in an acceptable time to establish His Holy Church. For nearly the last 2,000 years, the Jews have struggled and fought to return to their old way of life, in an attempt to prove that Christianity was just a fluke, and was not ordained from God. Do you know your history? The Jews have attempted several Zionist crusades in the nearly last 2,000 years, always to fail. The only way they could make a pretense of proving that they were right in slaying the Christ was to regain their metropolis and their old way of life. After all, if they could recapture the land and build a temple, and regain a priesthood and restart the animal sacrifices, they could somehow prove to the world that their old way of life was acceptable and pleasing to God, and Christianity was not necessary or pleasing. Obviously God confounded them time after time, demonstrating to them that after His Son Jesus Christ came, the old Jewish way of life was destined to cease. That is precisely why the Lord God ordained that the law could only be kept in Jerusalem, and then he shut them out for the last 2,000 years so they could not keep it. Obviously God is trying to send them a message. But the stiff-necked and stubborn Jews who are always fighting against God simply will not accept this truth. Hence we have another Zionist crusade. Cyprian

To: sea_urchin who wrote (11092)	6/20/2006 12:33:38 PM
From: Cyprian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

In fact, the basis of the Promised Land concept is a covenant whereby, if the Jews kept a number of laws and lead a particular type of life, the Messiah MAY come and lead them to the Promised Land. The Messiah Jesus Christ of Nazareth has already come, directing the way to the promised land, and they knew him not. The Moshiach that the Jews now seek is Antichrist, who will offer them (for only a brief moment) a worldly promised-land, which in reality will be a den of dragons, a pit of destruction. The true Promised Land is heavenly, not worldly.