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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LLCF who wrote (24028)	6/20/2006 5:42:50 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

We seem close but you interpreted the first part differently than I intended it. <<<...So "Intelligence is an awareness of reason"- I don't understand what you mean... something has to be aware of something elses ability to reason? Or are you saying it just has to be aware of reasons for doing something?...>>> You gave me a lot to think about so it will take more than one post. In this context, awareness of reason is not the observer's awareness of something else's 'ability'. Awareness is the observer's attention to logical order and the observer's rational understanding of the logical nature of the observed, the observed being just 'is' logically ordered. So reason exists both with the observer and is recognised in the observed. If you dismiss the relationship of observer and the observed, then you dismiss reason all together. The observer applies reason to the observed. The rational grounding of the observed is manifest by the awareness of the observer. The observer cannot be aware of the logical nature of the observed unless the observer is endowed with reason. So the reasoned observation becomes intelligible. I know I'm being redundant but this is a key to the original statement. So we may want to look at it from several perspectives. ============================================= I will attempt an analogy in the next post. ============================================ BTW, this guy I linked uses "adaptably variable behaviour within the lifetime of the individual Adaptiveness commonly recognized as a measure of intelligence. Many Psychologists use it as a variable in determining human IQ.

To: LLCF who wrote (24028)	6/20/2006 6:15:43 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

"Intelligence is an awareness of reason. Reason is observed as logical nature and is an endowment of the conscious observer. The awareness of reason and ability to deal with reason may be measurable as a function of intelligence." I have used the following analogy for other applications, it is very adaptable. We'll call it the 'irrational rain drop and irrational tree meet the rational rain drop and the rational tree.' A rain drop or a tree are irrational. They do not have the ability to observe and consciously understand the logical existence of each other. In this example a rational rain drop has the ability to observe only that which is a natural endowment of rain drops (H20), as it exists in other forms and the tree has the potential to understand only that which is natural to the tree as it exists in other forms. Neither is self aware. The tree can not live without moisture (H20). The tree is endowed with moisture in it's own life processes like of absorbtion through cell walls etc. We can give either the role of observer. If the rain drop observes the life process of the tree it will have the ability to recognise the existence of H20 in the various life processes of the tree. The rain drop will not be able to observe photosynthesis, etc in the tree because the rain drop is not endowed with photosynthetic aspects of existence. Likewise, when we give the tree the role of observer, it becomes aware of rain drops because it is endowed with properties of H20 and so is able to intelligently understand the object of its observation. Where does the logic of H20 exist, it exists in both the tree and the drop. If the drop cannot observe the moisture of the tree it has no awareness of H20. If the tree cannot observe the rain drop it has no awareness of H20. Intelligence requires that both the observed and the aware observer exist, or intelligence does not exist ... only the potential of intelligence. Reason cannot exist without observation and it must exist as an endowment of both the observer and the observed. We can be intelligent because we are observing that which is intelligible. Intelligence is ubiquitous.

To: LLCF who wrote (24028)	6/20/2006 6:47:42 PM
From: one_less	Respond to of 28931

"Seems to make sense to me... does this mean the more awareness something has ceteris paribus the more intelligent it is???" Awareness as I veiw it, is like a flash light that can be turned on or off, or can be moved to shine on one thing or another. The potential of awareness is only limited by the willingness and opportunity to imagine and pay attention. In robotic life we are simply performing habitual functions to meet our biological needs and urges ... awareness in this context is vestigial. Given more lucidity, experiential choices are formulated, encouraging awareness as purposeful and applicable. Also, it seems you'd run into a 'measurement' problem no matter what you use?? Meaurement is not a big issue for me. Maybe if you provide a context for measurement, I could give it more thought. "But nice, where did you get it??" We're just exploring ideas, right? Take care, Gem