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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: DuckTapeSunroof who wrote (743458)	6/23/2006 1:36:01 PM
From: Srexley	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

"I've put forward my views about Iraq literally DOZENS and DOZENS of times" Not to me. I was aware of your 3 Iraq scenario before this post. But generally you butt into posts I am making to others, and then start your silly word games and dishonest claims that you cannot understand what has been said. "My argument is that Democracy is always a good thing" Good. "but that, since the Sunnis are never going to be happy to be dominated and out-voted all the time by Shi'a --- " My hope is that not all will view having freedom anb being part of a democracy is being dominated. The ones that are so unhappy with the situation that they will kill others need to be killed. A grizlly business to be sure, but we need to rid the world (as best we can) of folks who will kill you if you disagree with them. If you agree with that point, then your argrument comes down to whether all or most of the sunnis will kill to have their way (which your position implies) or that most would take the freedom and democracy route (which will allow them to worship as they wish) and help eliminate the minority who will kill if they can't have their way. I might be naive, but I am with Bush in feeling that most people would prefer freedom as opposed to killing if they can't have everyone believe as they do. Maybe there is a genetic condition that effects them and there is no hope. But my feeling is that conditions that allow hope will produce a rational and civil society over time. It all depends on the will of the folks fighting the bad guys. Deciding not to kill the bad guys (quiting) will certainly increase the chances of your scenario. Killing bad guys will increase the more favorable result of a unified Iraq with folks with different views living together in peace. "Maybe. My argument is that none of this matters much until we leave them to settle their own affairs --- " My argumet (and Bush's) is that a strong unified government that can control the violence will result in a situation that is beneficial (and safe) to people of all views (except the kill if you don't agree with me view). Peace and prosperity just might break out in those conditions. Another point I will re state is that your view is the most likely if we leave. If we stay, Bush's view (which is better for the world as a whole) has a better chance. I don't see a long term benefit to the Arab world or the world in general to have the limited view that the best that can be done is factions that hate each other living next to each other and hopefully not slaughtering each other. The world needs the Arab world to progress in a way that allows differing views and beliefs to co exist. It can happen.

To: DuckTapeSunroof who wrote (743458)	6/23/2006 3:19:42 PM
From: Machaon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

And, the ONLY process that will EVER be respected in the region, is a decision that is made by the locals, and the locals ALONE. Respected in the region by whom? You think that Al Qaeda and the other terrorist groups, and the corrupt dictators of the Middle East will respect anything other than their own power and enrichment? A civil war would allow the local interest groups to reform the place along new lines of political power and ethnic realities on the ground --- You are in favor of pulling out of Iraq and allowing anarchy to rule, and allowing the most violent, depraved Islamists to destroy any semblance of civilization there? There wouldn't be a civil war, there would be a massacre, and the Islamic terrorist groups, backed by Iran and Syria would take over. Iraq's and Iran's oil resources would then be used as a weapon against the US and Europe, both via economic blackmail and for funding nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. Your idea of cutting and running and hoping that all goes well, doesn't work! Our only hope is for our leaders and our brave men and women in uniform to stay the course, defeat the demented, violent Islamic terrorists NOW so that our children and our grandchildren don't have to face or suffer a much worse fate later. Not only would your idea allow Islamic terrorism to win, it would enrich and empower our enemies, and almost certainly result in the destruction of our country.