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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Srexley who wrote (743468)	6/23/2006 2:37:10 PM
From: DuckTapeSunroof	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

"I was aware of your 3 Iraq scenario before this post." OK. So you know I'm not 'shy' about posting my opinions. (That's one canard we can lay to rest them....) "My hope is that not all will view having freedom anb being part of a democracy is being dominated." Am pretty sure that NOT having a guaranteed flow of cash (from Iraq's oil production) to them will be all it takes to produce Sunni unhappiness. (And, in a straight Democratic vote --- the Kurds and Shi'a can come up with a 70% or so vote amongst themselves... and ALWAYS cut the Sunnis out of wealth from the oil --- BECAUSE THE OIL LIES UNDER SHI'A LANDS IN THE SOUTH, AND UNDER KURDISH LANDS IN THE NORTH, NOT UNDER THE AREAS THAT ARE MAJORITY SUNNI.) So, you can 'hope' all you want to --- but I don't think the Sunnis are gonna be 'happy' without $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. "The ones that are so unhappy with the situation that they will kill others need to be killed." No kidding. That's EXACTLY what I argued would happen in the civil war. "I might be naive...." Looks that way. "...favorable result of a unified Iraq with folks with different views living together in peace." Yeah... and maybe they are all gonna sit around a campfire singing 'Kumbaya' if we just ask 'em nicely enough --- but I wouldn't put real money on that! "My argument (and Bush's) is that a strong unified government that can control the violence will result in a situation that is beneficial (and safe) to people of all views (except the kill if you don't agree with me view). Peace and prosperity just might break out in those conditions." Nah... that's an internally contradictory argument. IMO, the only government that will be able to hold all of 'Iraq' together is an Autocratic one (a Dictatorship --- same as all Western leaders, Reagan and Bush I included, have thought for DECADES). So: if you demand that the artificial nation of 'Iraq' be 'held together at all costs' then 'ya gonna need a Dictatorship to do so. On the OTHER-HAND, if you want Democracy, freedom, rule of law, and (eventual) peace... then you need to let the various ethnic groups carve out their OWN nations... where they can feel free from domination by the others. "I don't see a long term benefit to the Arab world or the world in general to have the limited view that the best that can be done is factions that hate each other living next to each other and hopefully not slaughtering each other." That isn't what I said. I said that a CIVIL WAR would be required among the locals to come up with a political settlement that they can all agree to... allowing the locals to draw NEW lines of political influence on the ground. I ALSO said that this is VERY MUCH in our own best interests in the long-run!!!!! "The world needs the Arab world to progress in a way that allows differing views and beliefs to co exist. It can happen." I wouldn't expect any more of Arabs and Persians and Kurds and Turkmen then I would of ANY OTHER HUMANS on the face of the Earth. Hell! It took an American REVOLUTION and then the bloodiest civil war in the history of the world (until record was later surpassed in the 20th. century) for Democracy and freedom to prevail in the U.S. of A. --- so what makes you think that the much bloodier, much less cohesive place of 'Iraq' will be any better?

To: Srexley who wrote (743468)	6/23/2006 6:39:38 PM
From: JDN	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

There are 19 provinces in Iraq. I understand that over 90% of the deaths are occurring in only 4 of the provinces. I ought to point out that according to our local newspaper there have been 12 Homicides in West Palm Beach, Fla. since the beginning of the year and NO ONE has been caught. Does that mean we have an insurrection in the USA? Take those 12 deaths in a middle size city and expand it out, what would you get? We have this vision of so many awful things in Iraq cause thats ALL THE MEDIA TELL US ABOUT. Most of the deaths today against Americans are roadside bombs. Doesnt take an army to do that. I suspect that actual terrorists are far smaller then we think and I bet many of them are just plain criminals. jdn