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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (190764)	7/3/2006 1:50:17 PM
From: Elroy	Respond to of 281500

Considering that Abu Ayyub Al-Masri, Zarqawi's successor, was likely behind the act, and that he is an Egyptian foreigner, and thus, an illegal combatant, are you willing to hunt him down as well? Sure, what's your point? he's declared himself head of Al Qaeda in Iraq, right? That he is a target is obvious. What about those who educated and instilled within him the belief that he didn't have to treat US captives humanely and with respect? I;d say he is responsible for his actions, those teachers are responsible for theirs. Again, not sure what this has to do with indefinitely detaining people suspected but not proven of being bad guys. So you believe we're just willing to fill up the Gitmo facility with any Tariq, Dalal, and Husayn that we come across? Are you THAT NAIVE to believe we'd waste time on someone we didn't have major concerns about? Or is it just stupidity on your part? This argument is along the lines of the US government saying "trust me, we know what we're doing", and no, that argument is not convincing to me. I don't think the people who made the determination of who does and does not go to Gitmo had the level of knowledge and understanding that you are assuming. If they did, WHY DO THEY REFUSE TO DIVULGE IT? If as you said the US government has "major concerns" about a person in Gitmo, why not list the concerns? The failure to list those concerns results in my lack of belief in the accuracy of the concern. Indefinitely detaining someone without even explaining the reason why they are being detained is totally unAmerican. Why has the US never explained the criteria that got one guy sent to Gitmo and another guy sent back to the field? As you said, that criteria must exist. Why the hell is it still (3 years later) a secret??

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (190764)	7/3/2006 3:31:19 PM
From: GPS Info	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

Are you THAT NAIVE to believe we'd waste time on someone we didn't have major concerns about? Or is it just stupidity on your part? Didn’t we waste time on the people that have been released back to Afganistan? We did release some old guys, didn’t we? I may have missed some posts between you and Elroy, but wasn’t there a point of having due process available to the prisons at Gitmo, and not whether we had “major concerns” about their participation in AQ or in the Taliban (which was probably compulsory)? WFIW, Elroy’s questions don’t come from his stupidity, but from an honest confusion over the continued justification of Gitmo itself. I share that confusion, and I think that you’re not helping him on that point. Are you telling me that no one in Afghanistan knew who was, and who wasn't, involved with Al Qai'da and the Taliban? Hawk, I admit that I don’t know what your point is here. Clearly someone in Afghanistan knew about AQ members, but does that really mean that someone snatched off the street had a high probability of knowing something useful? Does this fact somehow justify the existence of Gitmo. Couldn’t we have put these guys in a military prison in the US with access to attorneys and the Red Cross. Given how much you know of foreign affairs, is there another country’s administration (e.g. an Attorney General) that agrees that Gitmo is the best place for these guys? Do you actually know how many detainees are in Gitmo right now? How many have been actually held there since we overthrew the Taliban in 2001? Did you know they've released the names of all the detainees at Gitmo? If Elroy knows or doesn’t know the answers to these questions, does that mean that we’re doing the right thing by keeping them there? Let me answer these questions: 400, 1000, yes. How do these answers change the legal status or justification for keeping Gitmo going?