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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TigerPaw who wrote (24491)	7/9/2006 11:48:57 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

"I think the proof of the beginning of time is as sound as the proof that the earth isn't flat. That doesn't mean that it will necessarily be accepted." Let me help you out with that statement since it seems to lack authenticity... You believe the evidence presented by classical materialists is good enough for your belief system. Not that you should ever broaden your perspective but some people who do have open minds might consider the following: 1) Proof in the classical sense requires the ability to observe and replicate for the sake of validity. It also requires the ability to dismiss other plausible explanations having proven the null. 2) The models you are following involve a great deal of purely complex mathematical treatments. The mathematician Kurt Godel has proven that any attempt to produce a paradox-free mathematical system is bound to fail. Also... "Computers, Paradoxes and the Foundations of Mathematics Some great thinkers of the 20th century have shown that even in the austere world of mathematics, incompleteness and randomness are rife. Gregory J. Chaitin Some of the great intellects of the 20th century attempted to set mathematics on a sound logical footing, only to discover the inherent limitations of formal axiomatic systems. The author gives a sweeping description of this evolution of thought and summarizes his own contribution to the modern understanding of mathematics, which, like quantum physics, contains elements of randomness at the most fundamental level." siliconinvestor.com 3) Even the most simple paradox can be dismissed when we involve human beings and conscious awareness. Zeno's paradox of dividing distance and time into infinite number of intervals making movement from one finite point to another, confounds the computer but falls apart when we make the observation of a real circumstance, because we are aware that in real nature we can divide time anyway we want... as a limited segment or infinite number of times. 4) Not that the work isn't practical and useful but classic materialism skips over a bunch of gaps and paradoxes that involve life, consciousness, and awareness to explain a mechanistic universe prepped with a pile of "Ifs". One being the whole notion of real time existing out of the present mode of our awareness in the first place. You believe in time machines too? Best regards, Gem

To: TigerPaw who wrote (24491)	7/11/2006 11:20:34 AM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

"I think the proof of the beginning of time is as sound as the proof that the earth isn't flat." The evidence you are referring to is bound in a closed system of thought, one that does not account for the existence of very real paradox and alternative explanations. It is also based on an instrumental scientific view of the universe (Observation and measurement instruments). Much of it is based on presumptions that ignore the plausibilities of other explanations. It is actually quite practical from the instrumental point of view. The fact, however, is that scientific endeavor is an open system, as much a product of creative consciousness as it is the use of instruments. The universe is rife with paradox and possibilities.