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Politics : Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kerry -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (78056)	7/14/2006 8:26:44 AM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

History of the past 60 years has shown that we have held onto peace between Israel and its Arab neighbors only when the US has been actively involved in providing the political leadership. This leadership also involved in restraining Israel militarily. The current Administration has blindly sided and encouraged Israel, a total turnaround from the Clinton policy. While Clinton managed to bring the leaders of Palestine and Israel to the negotiating table, we have Bush leading the democratic choice of the effort to denounce the Palestenian leaders who were democratically elected in free and fair elections. You would think that the Bush foreign policy would go easy on the situation. HIs lack of diplomacy has landed him in a situation where the league of Arab nations along with Iran is now challenging the US worldwide. Surely he could have used our dollars to "truly" fight terrorism. It is too late for him now. He squandered his chances away when from 2002 onwards he (and the neocons and the right wing propaganda machine) came on very strong on the diplomatic world stage and denounced countries like France and Germany; where he denounced and ridiculed the UN as a worthless body. Today the neocons are facing the music with the feeling od "burning in hell." They stand helplessly by and watch those very people he denounced yesterday negotiate with the true terrorists in Iran and N. Korea. Mr. Bush where are you? Why were you, in your press conference yesterday in Germany, talking about world diplomacy taking time. Do you have any troops to order into Iran and N. Korea as you did in Iraq? Why were you not willing to give the Iraq issue and the international weapons inspectors more time then, but with Iran and N. Korea you are willing to wait for eternity. Was the danger posed by Iraq greater that that posed by Iran and N. Korea. Mr. President, we told you so. But you told us we were not patriotic. You branded us as liberals instead of Americans. YOu tried to separate us from our country. And worse still you did not have the intelligence in you to understand what we told you then. How could you. You failed to demonstrate your sense of responsibility when dealing with a simple thing such as the "the bottle." WE KNEW ABOUT THIS OF YOU ALL ALONG. All the best when you show your face at the G8.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (78056)	7/14/2006 11:20:49 AM
From: Cogito	Respond to of 81568

>>They weren't transplanted. The returned to the land of their ancestors. Most Israelis today, btw, are Misrahim - Jews of the Arab lands. Their ancestors never even saw Europe.<< Nadine - So by this logic, why aren't you arguing for the return of all U.S. land to the indigenous people? It's their ancestral land, for damn sure. (I refuse to use the term "native american" because it's inaccurate. Any person born here is a native american.) - Allen

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (78056)	7/14/2006 2:25:32 PM
From: Orcastraiter	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 81568

There was damn little of a body politic. The area was a sparsely inhabited backwater, long ruled badly by absentee rulers far away. Mark Twain visited Jerusalem, that great city, in 1867. He reported that it was the size of an American village of 4000 and he could have walked around its walls in an hour. According to Harrel, the population of Jerusalem was about 20,000 at the time of Twain's visit. In the time of Jesus it was 70,000. In 1947 the population of Jerusalem and environs was 205,000. The Jewish population was about half of that number. There was a balance between Jews and non-Jews. You call that damn little body politic? Since the creation of Israel the population of Jerusalem has exploded, with the vast majority being Jews. By 1967 Jews out numbered non Jews by more than 2 to 1. By then wars had erupted and many Arabs left Jerusalem. Many more Jews immigrated to Israel. It's over whelmingly Jewish today. But that momemtum towards Jewish control of Jerusalem, and of Israel, was set in motion by the creation of Israel. That was an almost overnight change in the body politic, historically speaking. I don't see where either Jews or Arabs can claim sole ancestoral rights to Palestine. Prior to the creation of Israel there was a balance in the body politic. After the creation there was an imposed imbalance. Who knows what would have become of the middle east if the UN had not imposed it's will, against the will of the Arab people? Perhaps we would have had a natural melting pot of Arab and Jew living in peace? I hold that the artificial creation of a nation by outsiders is at the root of the trouble in Palestine. This creation was done to solve the "Jewish problem". But it created many problems instead. Nadine, you seem well versed in the politics of the middle east, but your view is always slanted towards the Jews and support of Israel. Are you Jewish by any chance? The situation in Palestine/Israel can best be solved by peaceful means. It would seem that a single state solution with Arab and Jew living as one would be best. This is the way that it was prior to the creation of Israel. Since the creation of Israel, the population dynamics, and the political dynamics have shifted in favor of the Jews. This probably drives the Arabs to want their own state, rather than be controlled by the Jews. The two state solution with each hating each other seems doomed to failure. Missiles being fired back and forth will not be a solution. Whether a one state or a two state solution is tried, neither will succeed without compromise and forgiveness. So long as the radicals take up arms, the entire population will have to live in danger.