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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: neolib who wrote (194112)	7/31/2006 2:46:39 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

Good points. I think if you read the exchange between nadine and Carranza, you will see that not all of us who support israel quite undestand why folks keep repeating the failure of history. On both sides.

To: neolib who wrote (194112)	7/31/2006 4:53:24 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Israel is viewed by its neighbors as being land usurpers. It needs to correct that image. And the Arab world is viewed by much of the world as a land of fanatical and intolerant religious militants and terrorists, or decandent and lazy oil-rich despots who just happened to be "blessed" with a tremendous quantity of "black gold" who, otherwise would still be herding camels and stealing from one another (when they aren't killing infidels). Maybe they need to change that image as well... As I, and others, have previously stated, the entire region is nothing but a but of illegitimate geographical political entities carved out of the remnants of the Ottoman Empire. From what I've read of the history, the Jews merely wanted the right to purchase land in their historical homeland only to face the political jealousy of Arab political leaders who used their racism and bigotry to advance their own political prestige. They incited hatred of Jews, just as Hitler effectively did in Nazi Germany and tried to say the declaration of the state of Israel was illegitimate, whereas their own rulership of remnants of the Ottoman empire was "allah-inspired". And what have the Jews received in exchange for playing by the rules (purchasing land from Arab owners with dubious legal title to the land they inhabited)?? Wars of extermination being perpetrated against them. And just because the UN issues a proclamation that land captured and occupied as the result of defeating aggression (or perpetrating it) is illegal, it's an unenforceable rule. And it goes against human nature and historical precedent. When one country wars against another, the victor almost always claims land that they have conquered and shed blood for. And thus, the UN charter attempted to impose international rules that would prohibit future wars of expansion. But I do not believe they were thinking too deeply about the right of a nation victimized by aggression to claim territory seized in a resulting war to remain under their control for security reasons, or even to punish the aggressing nation. I mean.. where's the justice? Telling an aggressor nation that it has nothing to lose (or gain) by attacking a neighboring state only encourages more aggression. I mean, really now.. Do you think if Israel had lost the 1973 (or even 1967) war, that the UN would have proclaimed that Arab occupation of any of Israel's recognized borders would have been declared "illegal"?? It would have been a mere "fait accompli" and no one would have lifted a finger defending Israel's right to trade land for peace vis-a-vis its aggressors.. But their policy and method pretty much ensure that such will happen, and when it does, how will it help achieve the peace that Israel desires? I don't get it. What I don't get is why one of the first things the Palestinians would do upon having all Israeli troops and settlers leave Gaza, would be to perpetuate the attacks against Israel from that territory?? Why would they do this, having achieved a significant portion of their agenda? And why have the Palestinians CONSISTENTLY FAILED TO RESPOND POSITIVELY to Israel's offers to grants them a significant portion of the West Bank for their Palestinian state? I'll give you one reason. It's far easier for them to fight Israel than govern and economically grow their own economy. They don't seek to create a nation/state. They seek to perpetuate the exploitaion of their "victim status" in international eyes and receive those millions of dollars in free foreign aid and grants, which their leadership can then embezzle for their own corrupt purposes. Hawk