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To: JohnG who wrote (144455)8/23/2006 11:09:57 AM
From: carranza2  Respond to of 152472
 
First we need to seem the huge outflow to purchase oil from countries that would use this money to destroy the US. We need to bite the bullet and invest in coal to 15 ppm sulfur diesel plus cogeneration plants and stimulate Canadian Tar Sands projects. We need to restart our nuclear program for clean generation of electricity. These are huge construction projects that will stimulate the economy. Auto efficiency standards need to be raised to force conversion to diesel and diesel/electric cars & trucks. The clean diesel technology is available and used in Europe. Fundamentally, diesel engines extract 25% more of the available energy from liquid fuel than do gasoline/alcohol engines.

Hear, hear...



To: JohnG who wrote (144455)8/23/2006 2:42:56 PM
From: phatbstrd  Respond to of 152472
 
Excellent post...

You appear to be more democratic in your thinking than you give yourself credit...sounds like a page out of the FDR playbook <GG>.

My belief is along the same lines, which you expressed very well, and that this is not matter of political idealism, but rather about doing the right thing. Right now we are squandering our natural resources of human capital, environmental safety, and financial security. Both political parties have had legitimacy to be in power in the past, but right now we are going the absolute wrong direction for the gains of a few. The big picture must include a solid infrastructure which the society can spring from.



To: JohnG who wrote (144455)8/23/2006 4:35:43 PM
From: JohnG  Respond to of 152472
 
phatbstrd -- It's a matter of survival in my opinion. The US can continue to be a great country if it devotes its surplus resources to building for the future. If it follows this insane path, it will grow weaker and weaker.



To: JohnG who wrote (144455)8/23/2006 5:15:17 PM
From: Whatnot  Respond to of 152472
 
Excellent post - agree with everything you said and I'm a Democrat !



To: JohnG who wrote (144455)8/23/2006 7:03:43 PM
From: edwin k.  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 152472
 
Bigtime OT. But make no mistake, the population of this country is not in any way ready for many changes that will take away their toys, etc. They are not ready for mass transit, even it were here. Americans want convenience, and they want it now. Ford and GM and Chrysler are still advertising muscle cars even as we all know that muscle cars should never be allowed to exist. They still sell! Of course, the domestic sales are down, but I doubt they attribute it to the sale of muscle cars. Point is, we are still a nation of size and horsepower. We are not going to easily give up our view of the american dream, which includes, boating, flying, jetsetting, and driving big cars and trucks, etc etc.

People will not use mass transit enough to pay for it....not unless the price of gas goes much higher than 3 bucks. Try six bucks, just to get it started, but who knows? We like our privacy too much to ride mass transit.

As far as Coal and Canadian Oil Sands.... We now are lookin' down the barrel of Global Warming. No, I do not believe we will ever turn that around...we are "in for it" on that issue. China has huge coal reserves, as do other countries. There are still many zillions of tons of coal, and zillions of gallons of oil, and zillions of Cubic Feet of nat. gas. The world is going to use 'em up. Many countries are competing for these fuels now, and the price will rise, but it has to rise alot before big meaningful changes will take place.

Don't get me wrong, I think alot of things should change...I am just pretty pessimistic about the american attitude, or the attitude of those in all those developing countries who now want TVs, cars, refrig., central heating, etc. The companies they work for must compete on the global mkt. for sales of everything. There is no time to think about pollution, global warming, the wasting of fossil fuels, building / paying for nuclear etc. Capitalism is king, and that ain't going away in the next 100 years. How many countries are now developing and joining us in the industrial revolution? More than a hundred, with most of the world's population? Everybody is industrializing in a big way...as fast as they can.

Switching to Nuclear is too expensive in the short run. We need it now but no country can be trusted to manage it safely....safe enough for all of us, and not just the poor schmucks who live downwind. The production of the fuel can be mistaken for a bomb....we are not capable of managing nuclear fuel. period. Not that it can't be done...it could if humans could be trusted. It is not a question so much, of technology. We have that mostly, but we cannot be trusted. Human nature.

Alternative fuels such as wind, geothermal, solar...they are but a pittance in the face of all of this. They will not make much more than a dent for maybe 20 years. Ok, maybe ten percent.

Don't want to sound pessimistic, but this very much is a pessimistic subject. The answer is there is no answer. sorry! I had too much wine!

I will now go back to lurking.
e.k.



To: JohnG who wrote (144455)8/23/2006 7:27:44 PM
From: Clarksterh  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 152472
 
Other infrastructure construction projects should also be funded. This includes mass transit, power grid, water systems, sewage treatment, bridges and highways. These expenditures keep the money in the US and, at the same time, build for the future.

This is *exactly* what Japan did after their implosion in the early 1990's. It got them nothing and they remained in recession for 15 years - because economically it was money wasted building something they didn't actually need. Show me stats that the power system is down more than in the past, or that sewage treatment is worse than in the past or commute times are worse across the US (ignore the divot due to the mini-recession in 2000), ...

Purchases at Wall MArt do little for the US economy and the future of our country. The money has no multiplier -- it goes straight off shore. I really don't want to see the US become a nation of ShopKeepers.

The alternative is to deploy our assets doing things at which we are economically inefficient. See above and be willing to bite a 25-50% cut in standard of living (assuming that the average American made version of a VCR, for instance, would cost twice that of one made in Indonesia). Of course we need to maintain some core competencies for strategic reasons (e.g. unavailability during an embargo), but IMO the place our money really should be spent is on education and the tools to make use of the educated populace.