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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (842)	9/14/2006 4:30:57 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10087

"Inquiring minds want to know . . . . I argue that we can't know and further that we have demonstrated a decided inability to resolve the question amongst ourselves... Pro Con Death Penalty: The biggest problem with discussions on this topic come behind that word ‘Penalty’. The fact is ‘death’ is a consequence of life and need not be termed a penalty except when exacted purely as a non-self defense punishment on another person. If I had my druthers, I’d rather we look at the role of the Justice system in dealing with criminal conduct. That is, to find and implement resolute judgments, which is not necessary always a penalty to the perp as much as it is a societal remedy. However, we seem to be stuck with the ‘Penalty’ terminology, so that is where we center our discourse on the topic. Con: Death as a Penalty for one’s conduct carries with it certain connotations: Revenge, Vendetta, pay back, Cruel Unusual, Degrading Punishment, giving up, imperfect trial system carrying the risk of the unjust killing someone wrongfully convicted, lacks the element of mercy that lifts human beings to noble status. Pro: Whether you give someone a long life sentence which extends to decades of prison life followed by death in prison, or set a specific date for their death, you are determining the nature of their death circumstance. So, in that sense death is an element of the punitive consequence handed to all perpetrators of heinous crime. There is no way to reconcile heinous criminality for the victims or with society at large. Forgiveness and mercy is a resolute determination that is so entangled with the personal elements of heinous crime that no management of the perpetrator of a heinous crime can satisfy these issues. Therefore, it is no more just to say the death penalty lacks mercy and forgiveness than it is to say that withholding death as a consequence is merciful and forgiving. There are certain crimes that rise to the heinous category for which we have no just and resolute remedy. For example, lifers have been known to continue heinous conduct even while incarcerated, or to establish some alternative form of unwholesome deviancy within the culture of incarceration.

To: Ilaine who wrote (842)	9/14/2006 5:11:16 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10087

Well, please don't drop it before you answer the question, if you can't lose salvation once you're saved, what happens if you commit murder? Inquiring minds want to know. I'd also like to know how one can sin day in and day out. I can go for months, even years without sinning. What's that about? Maybe I've just been away from religion so long I've forgotten some items on the sin list... <g>

To: Ilaine who wrote (842)	9/14/2006 6:35:10 PM
From: one_less	Respond to of 10087

"...what happens if you commit murder?" ... I think I'd check into a psych ward. Convict caught in Tenn. after 30 years NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- A convicted murderer who escaped from a Michigan psychiatric facility in 1976 was back behind bars Thursday after living most of his 30 years on the run as an otherwise law-abiding family man in Tennessee, authorities said. Thomas Ball, 76, was arrested at his Nashville home Wednesday morning, Deputy U.S. Marshal Danny Shelton said. Ball had been using the name Thomas Fry and had run a storage business near Nashville for years with a woman he called his wife, Shelton said. After she died last year, he turned to the government for financial help, and that led the marshals to his door. "Maybe he never thought the knock would come, but it did yesterday," Shelton said Thursday. Ball was convicted in the 1964 of stabbing a 19-year-old woman to death at the Strand Hotel in Detroit, said Michigan Corrections Department spokesman Leo Lalonde. He said Ball had known the woman for about a week. Ball was sentenced to 20 to 40 years in prison and would have been released on parole by 1980 if he hadn't escaped, according to Michigan records. In 1976, he was at the Center for Forensic Psychiatry in Ypsilanti, Mich., when he made his break. "He was transferred after some psychiatric problem," Shelton said. "He says it was because of a mental breakdown, but he could have done that to attempt an escape, because some of these facilities are less secure than a prison." Authorities believe Ball moved to Tennessee shortly after his escape and assumed the name of a dead man who was the same age. Shelton said Ball didn't appear to have had any run-ins with the law there and was cooperative with the marshals during his arrest. His longtime partner, Dollie Walton, had legally changed her name to Fry before her death in September 2005. Her daughter, Sue Roach, said she and others in the family had suspicions about Ball but she doesn't think her mother knew he was a fugitive. "He's always been an evasive person," said Walton's son, Jerry Walton. "He said he couldn't remember his Social Security number." Ball never had a driver's license or a birth certificate, which made it hard for him to find employment, Walton said. "So she'd get a job and then he'd use her to get a job at the same place," he said. After their mother's death, Roach said, Ball no longer had a way to support himself. Bryan Matthews, an office supervisor with the Michigan Corrections Department, said his office alerted federal authorities on Sept. 8 after Ball tried to get federal assistance. "Through database checks ... we developed information that he got government benefits in the Tennessee area," Matthews said. He said marshals in Nashville then put Ball under surveillance and were able to confirm his identity.