Hello Mr. LL,
Do we have any ENGINEERS on this thread or anyone who has the slightest idea WTF they're talking about?
I don't think anyone on this board has ever claimed to be an engineer. Perhaps there is one or two, but I don't know. I think that we have a slight idea of what we are talking about, at least give us that much, pretty pleeeeeeeez.
The biggest reason that I have been attracted to SI over the years is because of the often eclectic mix of folks you find here. I have found that at its best it operates as an integrated COMMUNITY of experts and laymen, and everything in between with diverse points of view. Following on from this, someone who is an expert on one thread, may be a laymen on another thread, or simply a relatively knowledgeable laymen in one group vs. a total novice in another. This mix, on the best threads, generates a dynamic give and take, offering a valuable and generally RESPECTABLE learning environment.
You have presented yourself here as an expert, so I will assume that you are. I am very glad to have your input but not your friggin disrespect!
Don Earl is AUTOMATICALLY excluded.
We are being exclusionary are we?
There are REASONS you don't see streets full of electric cars and it isn't because the Big 3 or the Big 2 was in collusion with the oil companies. We've had an international car market in this country for DECADES. And BOY, does Detroit know it!
I'm pretty sure that most who think at all about this subject realise that it is technology that has limited the viability of electric or partially electric vehicles in the past, and that technology that has arrived or that is on the verge of reality has changed this picture dramatically. One does not have to be an engineer to note the myriad of articles, press releases, and cars on the road (Toyota Prius, Honda Civic Hybrid and the coming Tesla) to realise something is afoot. So an intelligent individual, but perhaps not an engineer, who is excited by these possibilities started this thread, and the idea of it has attracted posts by others who are similarly excited, and we are trying to educate ourselves through sharing information and ideas (apparently ideas that appear somewhat idiotic to you.). I think we have clearly presented our ideas as just that, ideas. So now we have an expert here, so I hope you help us hone or discard our ideas, as you have started to do.
The Japanese HAVE NO OIL. Why aren't THEY the ones who developed practical electric cars for their OWN use. They do have cars over there, you know. Not as many per capita as us, but they have them.
Yes, and it took the Japanese and the Germans to develop small, practical, fuel efficient vehicles, and it took many years for the U.S. to adopt them, and subsequently the US companies have played catch up for the last 20 years. And now the japanese are pioneering electric vehicle propulsion, in a quite logical incremental step (at least that is how it appears to my unexpert mind): internal combustion/electrical combinations. At least they look like they are, or am I missing something when I see all these Prius's and Honda Civic hybrids on the roads? Perhaps this is just a big hoax perpetrated on the mass of mind controlled consumers that are snapping these things up (see this link for further information on the state of my warrped mind and other questions I have for the experts: Message 22848316 ) Any input on those thoughts would be very helpful.
What of the Germans? They not only have no oil and lots of cars, but their own auto industry.
and the Japanese do not?
A gallon of gasoline has 1.3*10^8 joules of energy in it.
A AA battery has 10^3 joules. So it takes 1.3 *10^5 or 130,000 AA batteries to equal only ONE gallon of gas.
NOW do you begin to see the problem. Any idea what those would weigh? Or cost?
Let's do another one. A car moving at 40 mph is expending 10^5 watts (Joules/second). Let's say you want a range of 320 miles. That would take 8 hours or 480 minutes or 28,800 seconds or 2.88*10^9 Joules.
Now anybody know of a battery or batteries that contains that much energy that can be bought at a reasonable cost by the average person?
Great, those are interesting and helpful facts. My questions are:
1) Do you consider hybrid technology as unaffordable for the average consumer in the U.S., Europe, and Japan, and if so, that it can't approach affordability in the near future.
2) Is there something basic that the proponents of hybrid technology are missing when they present simple models demonstrating that hybrid vehicles are capable of 30 to 50 % improvements in gasoline and gasoline equivalent mileage over comparably sized ICE models. If so, then indeed our HPEV dreams are just that.
3) So, in the worst case scenario, you are saying that without any improvements in battery technology, someone who drove 320 miles every day could not be served reasonably by present day battery technology. But, how is that unreasonable for everyone's driving habits. What about the vast majority who travel less than 50 miles a day on most days? This would only entail a partial charge. 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours of charge at night, or every other day, or every 3rd day. Or a quicker charge of a smaller battery pack then you are using as an example: is this not reasonable? If not please explain why not. This is technology available today, is it not, that could be used by millions of town and city centered drivers. You appear to have just provided us with the data that says it is quite a reasonable idea.
4) PHEV's are presently being built by do it your selfers, and commercial outfits have just begun offering conversions that cost about 10 to 20 thousand U.S. $, but are projected to come down to about 4-5 thousand per vehicle in the near future. This is from low-volume conversions. Through simple equations these HPEVs have been shown to get up to 100mpg from gasoline and gasoline equivalent energy.
A) Are these claims bogus?
B) If not, do you really think that the big auto companies could not rapidly tool up to produce HPEVs, given that small commercial groups apparently are already producing them, and will be doing so approaching the cost of the hybrid vehicle before conversion in the near future?
C) Toyota and Honda are selling all the hybrids they can make. You seem to imply that there is no market for fuel efficient hybrids, plug in hybrids or electrics, is this correct?
I see that you have 3 recs for your post. You either have groupies or we have a few passive-aggresive lurkers <g>.
Your input is appreciated. |
