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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: mistermj who wrote (206752)	10/23/2006 7:18:04 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 281500

You could say the same thing about the way the republicans have tried to use 9/11 victims and families, or our fallen in Iraq, but you won't, since you've got an axe to grind against the left. Lots of people from both sides of the political spectrum have been getting close and cuddly with corpses. Why our dear president likes to talk about the fallen, and how we should "honor" their memory...by making more fallen. Go figure. Corpse friends aren't just for the left. Even your side has them. In case you don't believe me, here's Bush cuddling corpses: chinadaily.com.cn

To: mistermj who wrote (206752)	10/23/2006 8:54:19 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

mjfdl, re: "Its really despicable to use their grief for your own politics of hate." "Politics of hate?" You think Kevin Tillman wrote his missive because he was filled with grief? You think that Green Beret, special forces, combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan couldn't handle a just death, including the death of his brother? You think you can write him off as just another man whose grief overcame his reason? You'd better think again. The reason Tillman's message is important isn't because he said anything new, it's important because he gives us a small glimpse into the depth of feeling that some of our "volunteers" have regarding the wrongness of the war and the lies upon which it was, and is, based. Every human tragedy has a human face. The army and the civilian leadership of this country tried to put a human face on Pat Tillman's death that would inspire others to see what they proclaimed as the "nobility" of the mission and the single minded purpose of the American soldiers who were fighting it. They based that assertion on total lies; abject, cynical, we'll-play-you-for-a-fool, lies. This lie had some hard evidence that didn't meet their deniability test but it did, however, get them past the election. Pat's brother is now, through the strength of his anger, giving you a truer look at the human face of the Pat Tillman tragedy. The face of a brave, patriotic, daring young man who wanted to serve his country, who was willing to risk his life to serve his country and who trusted his country to keep their implicit promise not to throw their soldier's lives away in a war based on lies, poor judgement and deceit. That's the face of a man whose life was WASTED, whose death was twisted (silver star medal for "charging the enemy") to buttress the politics of deceit and who should, even now, be standing among us with his wife and family. Pat Tillman helps us to understand that those who smugly assert that "as wars go the deaths in Iraq are minimal" are wrong. There's nothing minimal about the WASTED death of one Pat Tillman, or of any of the other men and women whose families will one day ask "WHY?" Why was the life of my loved one sacrificed in a war against Iraq that protected no American interests worth dying for and, in actuality, greatly harmed America? And there isn't, and never will be, an answer to that question that gives them peace. Them or any of the rest of us who have the capacity to share a small part of their sorrow. But you, YOU see this as the "politics of hate" and relate it to the "elections." It is much bigger than that. It's about a nation's responsibility to it's soldiers and its citizens. It's about honesty, integrity, empathy, courage, the duty to be an informed voter, the duty to refuse to send men to kill and die for goals that could be met without such sacrifice, or that don't merit such sacrifice, or that can't be achieved through such sacrifice and that you wouldn't choose to die for yourself. It's about, at some point in your life, recognizing that if you've been wrong about everything regarding the war and men have been dying because of it, then get some humility and stop screaming that you're right. You might even consider becoming a follower of brighter minds with truer compassion, truer courage and truer instincts. In other words, at the least it's about you making an effort to stop being such a fucking idiot. Ed