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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (215508)	1/30/2007 2:57:21 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

Brumar, re: "Unfortunately, your question doesn't answer my question - it cowardly dodges it. Here's the question: Did Putin lie when he said Russian intelligence had evidence Saddam was plotting terror attacks against the US? Your post merely demonstrated that you can't answer the question." Sorry, the question was so tough that I got scared and had a hard time breathing. Let me try again. I don't know. First, did Putin really say that or is that just another one of the Bush Administrations disinformation lies? Second, only Putin would know whether he lied or not. Third, if he lied it was a brilliant lie viewed in terms of strategic value to the Russians. Because your simple little "But Russia's our buddy and the cold war is over" thinking is naive. All nations compete militarily, economically and socially. A proud nation like Russia will never be content with living in the shadow of a nation that employs its power to dictate policy and trade. At this very moment they're countering our moves in the UN, in Iran and throughout the Middle East. That was the case before we invaded Iraq and it's ongoing. The difference is that the Russians were weaker before we got mired down in an Iraq war that sucked off our resources and distracted us from critical needs. The Russians now occupy the enviable position of being seen as a major counterweight to an American nation that is viewed as a dangerous world bully, and stupid to boot. If you don't think there is a new commonality of interest between the Russians, the Chinese, some South American states, and some Middle Eastern States then you are even more obtuse than your posts would indicate. So...would he have lied? You figure it out. " It's just a fact that anti-American propaganda and sentiment existed long before the current intervention. And will exist long after. Partly because its spread by leftists within the US itself." It's that shades of gray thing again, isn't it? You simply can't comprehend that it's not the number of people that don't like you that counts, it's the number of people that dislike you so passionately that they'll try to kill you, or at least help those who will try to kill you. Let me try to make it really, really, really, really....(keep on going here cause it's going to have to be rock-in-the-head-plain simple before you get it.) Let's say that 90% of the people on this bulletin board think you're thick headed and ignorant. That's a 90% anti-Brumar sentiment. Is your life in danger? Well, what if you killed some of their children, raped some of their women, or men, and threatened the rest of their families. It's still 90% anti-Brumar sentiment right, but is there some, itsy bitsy, teeny weeny little bit of difference regarding whether your life is in danger? HUH? What changed? And what changed in the world when pictures of Iraqi women and children lying dead beside American shrapnel started showing up all across the world? What changed when America started ignoring the Geneva Accords and pictures of dead and tortured Muslim men started showing up around the world? And what changed when Americans started knocking down doors and taking men from their families to be held without hearings, without charges and for indefinite periods of time? "taken the terrorist bulls eye off Russia and put it on ourselves" I said that and it's true. Before we invaded Iraq the Russians had a growing problem with the Chechnian rebels and the Muslim world was directing much anger there. You don't hear much about that now, do you? As far as talking to you about Vietnam, how do you discuss that intelligently with someone who has absolutely no friggen idea of the political, strategic and social realities of that conflict, and who doesn't want to learn what it taught us about the limits of conventional military power and the way cultures respond to foreign "help?" A lot of human beings died to teach us a lesson there and you don't even have enough thinking power, or listening power, to get a glimmer of an idea. I'd like to have seen you in Vietnam telling the people fighting us to the death how sorry you were that they "were not volunteers [and that] they had no choice about fighting." You would have had a second or two to feel surprised at how enthusiastic they were about killing you. You've never fought in a war or you'd understand clearly that you can't force a population to fight a war or support a war. It comes from passion and heart. That "forced to fight" bullshit was 100% misinformation. The truth is that your sloganistic "thinking" is based upon the most one-sided propaganda imaginable. Keep living in that dream world and hope that those whom you so gleefully brand as "leftists" somehow manage to negotiate a path through the minefields of dangerous stupidity that magical thinkers like you have created. That's the only hope your children have of living free. Ed