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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Road Walker who wrote (323920)1/31/2007 2:26:37 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1578705
 

re: Your insuring against premature death not death.

Maybe with term but not with whole.


Whole life combines insurance and investment. It isn't simply insurance.

If you bought it like term insurance with the term being your estimated life span (in other words for you anticipated life, but with no investment component) it would be insurance of you dieing before your estimated life span is up. I suppose you could buy insurance that has no investment component for the "term" until I die, but its still really only early death that is being insured against. Your going to die some day. "Insurance" against a certain event isn't really insurance. Your not pooling any risks, and paying out to the unlucky view who face some tragedy.

Auto insurance is high if you don't make a claim.

Auto insurance isn't excessively high considering your possibility of having to make a claim. Social Security's "premiums" are excessively high considering the possibility that a person of average income, who doesn't get disabled, will not be able to save enough for a reasonably decent retirement. (We're talking about the retirement part of the program, not the disability portion, and yes you would have to assign a portion of your social security payments as "premiums" for the disability insurance, but even after subtracting that portion the "retirement insurance" "premiums" are too high for a future retiree of average income.

SS is cheap insurance if you outlive your savings by 15 years.

No it isn't cheap insurance under those circumstances (at least for people 40 and under over average income). If they took the money they pay in to SS and invested it non-aggressively they would almost certainly have more money than SS will wind up paying them.

And again it isn't insurance at all. It pays out to everyone, not just people who have some relatively unlikely insurable event happen to them.



To: Road Walker who wrote (323920)1/31/2007 2:45:14 PM
From: TimF  Respond to of 1578705
 
"... First, let me point out that the big debate we’re all having is about retirement policy, not disability. So let’s leave that aside. Second, Matt seems to implicitly accept that turning 65 years old does not constitute an insurable “loss” that might be thought to require reimbursement. Older people are on average wealthier. In terms of buffering people against risk, it makes a heck of a lot more sense to transfer money from chi chi retirees in Boca to people facing the “risk” of turning 20. I think we can all agree that birthdays aren’t insurable events. It’s both weird and dishonest to represent a birthday or the event of voluntarily leaving the labor market as an insurable “loss.” Social Security checks are event-conditioned welfare payments. That’s just what they are.

Now, yes, it turns out that we don’t know exactly how long we’re going to live, and so there’s some chance we might outlive our savings. Or we might face some kind of financial catastrophe that guts our retirement nest egg. You don’t know how long you’ll be able to be a productive contributor to the economy, etc. But the point that Matt fails to address is that insofar as Social Security “insures” against these contingencies, so does means-tested welfare, and to a very great extent, so do personal accounts. Means-tested benefits are much MORE like insurance in the sense they kick in only upon the occurrence of some kind of loss or hardship. An annuity from a personal retirement account is exactly like a stream of Social Security checks, except that you actually own something. If Social Security is insurance, then so is a personal account annuity. The reason why Feldstein, in his presidential address to the APA, “Rethinking Social Insurance” discusses the current system, personal accounts, and means-tested benefits as alternative forms of “insurance” is simply that if the current system counts as social insurance, then so do the alternatives.

Regular commercial insurance works by subsidies across the risk pool. (And is by its very nature “social.”) Premiums are actuarially determined on the basis of bunch of variables like the probability of the occurrence of loss and the likely cost of reimbursing it. It’s a kind of bet. The premiums of people who get lucky, and don’t experience the relevant kinds of losses, reimburse people who get unlucky and do experience them.

Social Security isn’t like this at all. It “reimburses” everyone who turns 65 (or 62 or 67). Like I said, this event isn’t a loss; it is in fact correlated with being rich. A system that pays everyone–Warren Buffet, Tom Cruise, etc.– is conspicuously un-insurance-like. It’s sort of like a system of home-owners insurance where everybody’s house burns down ten years after you move in. There’s nobody who gets lucky, so no way to transfer risk across the pool. Rather than being structured at all like regular insurance, Social Security is a system of chained intergenerational transfers — a chain letter, a Ponzi scheme — which is not what insurance is.

If you insist on calling non-insurance insurance, then Social Security is like insurance in the way that any stream of income is like insurance. It makes it possible to pay for stuff that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to pay for. But that’s not what insurance is, except in the loosest possible sense. You don’t think that you have insurance because you have a salary. You don’t think you have disability insurance because you walk around with a helmet on. Most people who receive Social Security are perfectly able to “self-insure.” And Social Security improves their ability to self-insure largely because it’s replacing income that the government took away in the first place.

The point is: A system that pays everyone benefits upon the occurrence of a near-universal, non-loss event by means of a system of intergenerational wealth transfer just isn’t insurance in the paradigmatic sense. If “insurance” just means “making sure that people don’t suffer when they don’t have enough money,” then ANY system that makes sure that people have enough money is insurance. Inter-family transfers, churches, charities, clubs, etc. count as insurance in this sense. And so do means-tested old age benefits and personal retirement accounts.

Is there any liberal reason to prefer the current system over means-tested benefits or personal retirement accounts? None that I can think of. Most of the people who are freaking about progressive indexing provide a distinctly illiberal reason. Unless we trick the middle class by taking their money away and then giving it back to them later while deceptively framing the whole enterprise as a kind of contractual agreement between a consumer and an insurer, mean spirited voters will starve ol’ Ethel and Wilbur.

The first thing wrong with the argument is that there is nothing other than sheer knee-jerk ideological prejudice behind the assumption that a non-deceptive system wouldn’t provide big enough benefits. I think the reverse is more likely true. Under a mean-tested system, sentimental Americans prodded on by massive interest groups like the AARP and heavily voting seniors would end up supporting benefits that are way too big, thereby causing a serious moral hazard problem. That’s why we need mandatory investment accounts instead!

Almost everyone now thinks welfare reform was very a good thing. The problem before wasn’t that Americans are stingy. The problem was that means-tested benefits really were TOO GENEROUS. As far as I can tell, there is nothing whatsoever to the “hard-hearted Republicans will starve gramps” argument other than reactionary boogety boogety.

Second, from a liberal perspective, it’s just wrong to use the power of the state to trick the voters. The voters are supposed to tell the government what to do, not the other way around. We get righteously ticked when the Bush administration distributes faux pro-Bush “news” segments, and pays off opinion writers in an attempt to manipulate public opinion, and we should. And any good liberal, who cares at all about public reason, transparency in government, and informed reflective deliberation among self-governing citizens should throw up a little bit every time they think about the Social Security status quo.

So, there’s no reason to believe that you’ve got to trick the voters to make sure they’re generous enough. And it’s wrong to trick them in any case. Is this really the liberal argument? Seriously?..."

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