To: Ichy Smith who wrote (196843 ) 2/17/2007 4:56:40 PM From: epicure Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793750 I'm not sure what you are trying to say in reference to the words of mine which you have quoted. I fail to see a logical connection. You think calling people traitors because they have a different political view is acceptable? Logical? Accomplishes something productive? Is justified because someone changed their mind (in your opinion) or was inconsistent? I'm talking, in the words you have quoted, about the efficacy of certain types of speech. You seem to have quoted that, but jumped off on some other topic. Illogical arguments are not likely to convince anyone who does not already agree with you. Someone who already agrees with you will, of course, nod their head and give you a slap on the back, but what's the point in that, really? It doesn't matter if Petraeus feels betrayed. People in government, and people in the military feel betrayed all the time (frequently no matter what decision you take someone ends up feeling betrayed), but those feelings don't mean any traitorous acts are involved, or conversely, just because someone might feel betrayed, doesn't mean one shouldn't do the right thing, EVEN if the right thing ends up with some people feeling betrayed. Here's an example- in any war, no matter how wrong it was, the mothers and fathers of the wounded and killed are bound to feel betrayed if the war is halted before victory. I am sure some Japanese felt betrayed when their country finally surrendered unconditionally, but that doesn't mean the decision to surrender was not a good decision. In other words, that certain people may or may not feel betrayed has no bearing logically on whether a decision is correct. So I have no idea how you jumped from what I said about calling people traitors to what you have to say about people in the military feeling betrayed because they don't get their way, or don't feel the military is given its head, or whatever you are saying. Can you clarify the connection between calling people traitors, and decision making that might involve making people feel betrayed, bearing in mind the very specific definition of treachery?