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To: E. Charters who wrote (40780)	5/22/2007 10:40:31 PM
From: LoneClone	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78421

I source as much food as I can either from my garden or from farmers I know, always organic if possible, and when I cook, I use raw ingredients rather than prepared sauces. Other than cat food, I maybe buy a dozen cans of food per year. If I go to a restaurant I pick one that follows an analogous approach. Eat as low in the food chain as possible, and as local as possible, I says, says I. I drive as little as possible, just over 4000 km last year, and recycle or compost almost everything, leaving one bag a month for the sanitary engineers to dispose of. My big dilemma right now is plane travel, which is indefensible in environmental terms. But I like to travel... I guess it's a similar contradiction to the one that I like to travel to unspoiled areas free of humans, which I thereby render no longer free of humans. I'm doing what I can, man. On the radio right now I am listening to a scientist describing her study of how the level of estrogens that are found in municipal waste streams due to women taking the pill completely destroy the reproductive systems in fish and cause population collapses. LC

To: E. Charters who wrote (40780)	5/22/2007 11:16:47 PM
From: loantech	Respond to of 78421

Not too shabby grasshopper.

To: E. Charters who wrote (40780)	5/22/2007 11:22:49 PM
From: Gib Bogle	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78421

"We will kill ourself off before the earth has a chance to feel the effects of our depradation." Sorry EC, I'd like to be able to agree with you, but unfortunately that's BS. Take a look at a satellite pic of the Brazilian rain forest. The same story has already happened in countless other places (like NZ) and is continuing apace in most of the remaining such places (e.g. in Indonesia, Cambodia, West Africa). There are many ways that we're affecting the earth's denizens dramatically - where are the elephants going to live, the gorillas, the orangutans, the rhinos, the tigers,... In a few zoos and parks. While all this has been happening there has been little sign of the human species dying out - rather our population has been rising exponentially, and we are living longer than ever before.

To: E. Charters who wrote (40780)	5/23/2007 1:51:48 AM
From: roto	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 78421

maybe you are being a little bit disingenuous. no matter how you dress your statement, the issue is that nature is getting hosed. if the natural order of being were allowed to 'enfold' it would be somewhat plodding effort. the thing is that whatever man has done in this world it has been with a heavy footprint & usually bad/ terminal/ fatal for anything deemed 'value'. even today the arguments about the economies of scale are all doomed to eventual failure if decisions were only strictly based on the resulting bottom line, profit being sooner than later. questions begging to answer...what mitigating circumstances came into being as a result of the drive to profit? whatever is affected, how is it addressed? who 'owns' this responsibility for corrective action for something done wrong & the resulting fix & associated costs to make right? citizenry ultimately pays the price for the abuses of unfettered capitalism aided by complicit/ neutered governmental policies, i.e. non- government. maybe it would be advantageous to take 1/4 of the land mass out of the equation, to be maintained as wildlands/ preserves, whatever you want to coin it. in years to come this may be our most precious resource in existence. of course, it will never happen. I guess it is pump more oil, mine more metals, pis* more people off, start more wars. loach