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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (15406)	6/4/2007 2:20:46 PM
From: SARMAN	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

And let's face it Sarman.. tell me WHERE in the Arab world a Jew will be permitted to purchase land and hold the property rights to it? The misconception of the Jews that lived in Arab countries were evicted is not true. Jews lived in the Arab world and had the rights as Muslims and Christian. When the Jews got the call to migrate to Israel, most Arab government denied exit to Israel. After major negotiation, they allowed whom wants to leave with the condition that they leave everything behind. There is are still Jewish communities in Lebanon with their Synagogue, Syria, Iran, small communities with the rights as the locals. All the talk about not owning land is BS. I believe it's still a crime punishable by death in the Palestinian Authority, as well as Jordan.. There will be no more Palestine if they did not implement the punishments.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (15406)	6/5/2007 4:59:02 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

Re: And Jews, although they may live amongst Arabs (or Christians, for that matter) do not forego their ethnic/cultural roots as a NATION of people, merely because of geographical location. Arabs never had a problem about Jews billing themselves as a "cultural nation/minority" within the wider, Arab/Muslim polity... Arabs' hostility is not aimed at Jews, it's aimed at Jewish colonialism aka Zionism. Just because the Jews felt like an underdog minority lost amidst the Arab ocean didn't entitle them to carve up a SOVEREIGN Jewish state out of Palestinian/Arab land! Otherwise, I can adduce several examples of other mistreated minorities that could, likewise, claim a nation-state of their own: African-Americans could rightfully claim a piece of North America as a black-ruled enclave... Oh, I know your answer to that argument: Liberia, the country the US graciously offered to former black slaves to rule as their own. However, I'm afraid Liberia doesn't fit the bill... Liberia, as an African state, is like turning Manhattan into a Jewish nation-state --a Zionist enclave into Zionist America... where's the thrill? where's the catch? where's the FIGHT???? No, African-Americans, perhaps in cahoots with Hispanics, ought to turn Florida into a country of their own, fitted with nukes aimed at your largest sundown towns. Another case in point is the Gypsies. It's now common historical wisdom that Gypsies are the descendants of Indian tribes from Central India, they migrated westwards about one thousand years ago and settled first in Turkey, next in the Balkans, Central Europe, Germany, France, Spain, Britain,... As you know, Gypsies, too, were the victims of the Nazi genocide. So, how about resettling the Gypsies where they belong, that is, in India? How about cleaning up an area around Bangalore, expelling Hindus and other local bums and making room for the poor Gypsies? Re: ...Palestine have been nomadic, moving from place to place (with the exception of city, or agricultural, dwellers and all of them came from somewhere else with exception of the Sephardic Jewish population. That's not a scientific/archeological argument! To claim that the Hebrews/Jews were the first settlers of Palestine is a Biblical fantasy. It's quite likely that there were other nomadic tribes who used to prowl the area for centuries before Hebrews barged in.... They may not have left monuments or scriptures or archeological remains but that doesn't allow you to rule them out. It's up to archeologists and paleontologists to keep on looking for evidence of human settlements as far back as 10,000 BC or even 20,000 BC, right back to the first years of the Neolithic Era. Once some Homo Palestinus has been identified as the first settler of the "Holy Land" then it's up to geneticists and DNA genealogy to trace the descendants of Homo Palestinus down to the present day --and their findings will likely disappoint you.... Gus

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (15406)	6/5/2007 5:05:24 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Respond to of 22250

Footnote to my previous post re: Gypsies. Romany Gypsies came out of India Anna Salleh ABC Science Online Monday, 6 September 2004 Legend has it that European Gypsies came from Egypt but a new genetic study has shown they came from a small population that emerged from ancestors in India around 1000 years ago. The research, by Professor Luba Kalaydjieva of the University of Western Australia and team, looked at the origins of eight to 10 million people in Europe commonly known as Gypsies. Roma, Romani or Romany are other names for this community, which has featured in movies such as Latcho Drom. "[The research] is the best evidence yet of the Indian origins of the Gypsies," the researchers write in an article published online ahead of print in the American Journal of Human Genetics. The researchers were first alerted to the idea that the Romany may be descended from a small founder population when they discovered that certain genetic mutations in the population were shared in people who were not directly related. This occurs in other groups that have developed from small founder populations such as the Finns, Ashkenazi Jews, the population of Quebec in Canada and possibly the Australian island state of Tasmania, Kalaydjieva, told ABC Science Online. Kalaydjieva and team have been studying the genetics of Romany people for over 10 years. In this recent study, which will be published in the October issue of the journal, the researchers analysed five genetic mutations linked to certain diseases, such as the neuromuscular disorder myasthenia. The aim was to try and estimate when the original founder population arose and when it split off into different groups of Romany. The researchers studied the diversity of the chromosomes that carry the genetic markers. Over successive generations, the region around the genetic markers become more and more diverse. By applying a known rate of genetic change in DNA, the researchers worked out the founder population emerged from the ancestral population 32 to 40 generations ago, or 800 to 1000 years ago. An Indian origin As well as looking at over 1100 samples of Romany from Europe, they studied six samples from India and found that the similarity in genetic markers supported the theory that the founder group, of perhaps under 1000 people, came from India. The idea that Romany people came from India was first proposed 200 years ago based on similarities between their language and the Indian language Sanskrit, said Kalaydjieva. But such studies were inconclusive. "There are quite a few examples where a population adopts a language but this does not necessarily mean its biological roots belong to the same place as the larger population that speaks this language," she said. "So from the biological point of view we have provided we have provided the best evidence so far that this is indeed a population that derives from the Indian subcontinent." Kalaydjieva and team's analysis of disease genetic markers supported the scientists' previous research on male and female genetic markers. "It all points in the same direction," she said. Gypsy: a loaded term Kalaydjieva said scientists commonly used the term "Gypsy" but this was politically and historically loaded. "Initially Gypsies were called Gypsies because Europeans believed, and this was a legend that the Gypsies maintained themselves, that they came from Egypt," she said. But she said Gypsies had been persecuted due to superstition, racism and prejudice. The term Gypsy had become increasingly given a pejorative meaning, being used to describe a social category with a wandering nomadic way of life, rather than a biological population. Many people from that group now preferred to be called Roma, Romani or Romany. She said the term Romani or Romany, strictly speaking linguistically and historically, described Balkan Gypsies. These people were a sub-group of European Gypsies and the scientific term Gypsy was a more generic term to cover the biological population. Today people descended from European Gypsies live all over the world, even Australia. In Bulgaria alone there are at least 50 groups with different traditions, cultures, dialects and adopted religions. abc.net.au