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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (209023)	6/19/2007 3:26:18 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793955

But I know and sometime talk politics with liberals and, while they have goals for the US I don't agree with, that I think would be disastrous mistakes if achieved, I can't find anything remotely anti-American about them If you "love" some theoretical "progressive" Utopia, but loathe every part of the actual American government, its policies, its goals, the current "fascist" administration and its "lies" and "staged 9/11 attacks", and the stupid majority of the population who voted them in, then the slice of "America" that you actually love is very thin indeed and mostly theoretical. As I said before, I do not consider Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell daring and original thinkers. If they were really drawing original conclusions that nobody around them agreed with, they would be very careful about airing them. But they know their opinions are the CW of their circles, so they have no hesitation in airing them, and have done so to the general applause of their direct hearers.

To: Lane3 who wrote (209023)	6/19/2007 7:40:20 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793955

I don't read anything that is ranty, hysterical, mindless garbage,... Then I guess those on this thread can feel complimented as you apparently have been reading this thread or you wouldn't have posted here. Myself, I do read "ranty, hysterical, mindless garbage" at least when there's a lot of it around. Seeing a lot of that on SI tends to worry me. But I know and sometime talk politics with liberals and, while they have goals for the US I don't agree with, that I think would be disastrous mistakes if achieved, I can't find anything remotely anti-American about them. They just see Utopia differently and want to move their beloved country more towards their version of it. As do we all. I'll allow that some liberals are certainly like that. But some on the left are anti-American, theres just no way around it. I've seen some who try to distinguish between liberals and leftists for this reason. In previous posts, I found three people (Sheehan, Churchill, DeGenova) who you'd agree were anti-American based on their blanket expressions of ill-will toward the country as a whole. I wonder if you'd agree that the expressions below are also anti-American? "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." Noam Chomsky (note by "postwar", he means post WWII) “Should such an ignorant people [as the United States] lead the world? Don’t go the American way when it comes to economics, jobs and services for the poor and immigrants. It is the wrong way.” Michael Moore in Die Zeit. "You’re stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe.” Michael Moore to an English audience. I think the above qualify as being anti-American in sentiment. And in these cases, I've picked individuals with wider followings on the left than Ward Churchill or Nick DeGenova.