To: koan who wrote (43448 ) 6/28/2007 6:41:02 PM From: E. Charters Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 78421 All Einstein (literally one beer), was saying was that it is impossible to define the properties of matter without a frame of reference, relative to another frame, and there was no true frame of reference that took precedence over another. As such the properties of all matter, such as mass, speed and size were not absolute. It is another way of saying that there is no fixed overarching reference system that defines space/matter/time. It is self defined by its relation to other frameworks. You cannot say particle x is of mass w, at speed y, size z, unless you compare it to another particle, say a, which for all intents and purposes must be taken as at rest, and of given mass and size defined only by the present reference frame of particle x to a. This leads directly to the conclusion that time being a frame of reference related to the gravity of the particle, that it too must have a frame of reference and thus gravity affects matter, time, and space physically. en.wikipedia.org Einstein showed that there is no way to create a mythic absolute frame of reference to measure from, so it must not exist to arbitrate a mediation of the quantities it supposedly could measure. It is the physics equivalent to a tree falling in a dereferenced forest with nothing to measure its fall or impact. Does it make sound? Einstein's tree does not even fall. Newton used this principle to figure out the distance from the earth to the moon, but stopped short of going further along the pathway that would have revealed the inherent indeterminance of all matter/space/time except within a defined frame of reference. Einstein developed his principles mathematically by using what are called Lorentz transformations and Hilbert field equations.en.wikipedia.org The amazing thing is Einstein, or one-beer-relativity can be completely understood by the simple method of drinking 24 beer at a common room of an engineering college and arguing with co-eds about it to 4 in the morning. In human terms it is the same thing as being born in a village in Kentucky. In order to hire a revenue agent you must prove that any given person is not at his cousin, or half brother, knows this, and could one could safely testify in court as to his paternity. You can instantly see that everything is relative in Kentucky and agents must be hired out of state. To ask a guy to arrest his cousin for making illegal whisky could be a matter of some gravity and could definitely bend space-time if not put a few noses out of joint. EC<:-}