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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (16411)	9/25/2007 1:43:05 PM
From: Sam	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 36917

Antarctic Ice is Growing (Part of the How to Talk to a Climate Sceptic guide) illconsidered.blogspot.com Objection: The Antarctic Ice sheets are actually growing, which would not be happening if Global Warming were real. Sigh. A gaggle of shrinking glaciers all around the globe doesn't prove a thing, but one thickening ice sheet at the south pole and the debate is supposedly over. What can you do except present a few facts and explain the very simple cause? Answer: There is actually very little data about the changes in the mass of the Antarctic ice sheets, and the conclusion of some growth in the East Antarctic ice sheet is so little that with the uncertainty, it might even be shrinking. This is not a surprising phenomenon as such an increase would be the result of increasing percipitation and this is fully consistent with a warming world as the antarctic is a desert and warmer climates tend towards more percipitation. And even if you warmed 10 oC from -50 oC, you would still be accumulating snow, not melting in the rain. There is some widespread glacial melting on the Antarctic peninsula and ice shelves are breaking up, but it does indeed appear that the mass balance on ice at the south pole may be positive but negligible. This does not, however contradict the theory of Global Warming in any way whatsoever. While on the subject of ice sheets, Greenland is also growing ice in the center for the same reasons described above, but it is melting on the exterior regions, on the whole losing approximately 200 km^3 of ice annually, doubled now from a decade ago. This is a huge amount compared to what the changes may be in the Antarctice, around three orders of magnitude larger. So any potenial gain in total volume of ice on the planet due to the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is wiped out many many times over by Greenland's ice sheet. a NASA JPL news release a CIRES study a NASA new release

To: LindyBill who wrote (16411)	9/25/2007 8:36:30 PM
From: Triffin	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 36917

"While the Antarctic Peninsula area has warmed in recent years and ice near it diminished during the Southern Hemisphere summer, the interior of Antarctica has been colder and ice elsewhere has been more extensive and longer lasting, which explains the increase in total extent. This dichotomy was shown in this World Climate Report blog posted recently with a similar tale told in this paper by Ohio State Researcher David Bromwich, who agreed 'It's hard to see a global warming signal from the mainland of Antarctica right now'." There may be an explanation for the Arctic/Antarctic dichotomy .. During Northern Hemisphere summer and Southern Hemisphere Winter the earth is at perihelion ie furthest distance from the sun .. This may facilitate extra cooling in Antarctica during SH winter .. Triff ..

To: LindyBill who wrote (16411)	9/27/2007 1:01:54 PM
From: Elmer Flugum	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36917

The Other Side of Ethanol Production: A Burning Question For Brazil's Sugar online.wsj.com "Should Farmers Still Use Fire to Help in Harvest, Or Bring in Machines? By KENNETH RAPOZA September 24, 2007; Page C3 "SÃO PAULO, Brazil -- Each September, thousands of acres of Brazilian sugarcane go up in smoke, a ritual that accentuates an economic, social and environmental conflict. Farmers burn the crop to facilitate harvesting by machete. The government wants to end the practice, long considered a health hazard and one of Brazil's top greenhouse-gas contributors. If the practice is banned, mechanical harvesters will take over, taking thousands of poor workers out of the field and likely leading to a social conflict that city councilors and labor unions would rather avoid. Burning the cane eliminates the razor-sharp leaves from the cane stalks, making it easier to cut by hand. Yet, cane-burning practices pump a layer of black ash into the air, creating an eye-burning pollution. Machines don't require burning. Driving along the Bandeirantes highway in São Paulo, one notices large orange flames visible just a quarter-mile from the road. Billows of black smoke rise from the flames, making it look as though a large bomb has just been dropped on the horizon."