To: Doug R who wrote (16634 ) 10/6/2007 7:39:03 AM From: sea_urchin Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22250 Doug > Why would you think the "bad guys", as you call them are unidentifiable? To some extent one believes they are the elites, possibly top businessmen and top bankers but after that the trail disappears. Indeed, I can do no better than quote the next paragraph in the "Eyes Wide Shut" reference which I gave earlier: >>According to certain legends, The Illuminati was purged in 1785 by the Bavarian Government on the grounds that it had attempted to overthrow the ruling class of Europe. Other legends suggest that The Illuminati were merely driven underground at this juncture, all the while continuing their multifarious activities under a maze of guises--including such current incarnations as the Bilderbergers, The United Nations and the Council of Foreign Relations--and exist unto this day as the Ultimate Octopus actually pulling the levers behind the scenes of world events*** , albeit hidden behind a cloak of subterfuge and secrecy. Other researchers contend that the Illuminati is simply a subdivision of Freemasonry, this due to the fact that the original Order of the Illuminati was formed within Masonic Lodges in Germany, by one Adam Weishaupt in 1776. According to noted Guerilla Ontologist, Robert Anton Wilson, who has spent many years attempting to unravel this mystery: "Since Masonry itself is a secret society, the Illuminati was a secret society within a secret society, a mystery inside a mystery, so to say." Arcane history lesson aside, I will henceforth use the term "Illuminati" rather liberally throughout this tract, as an easy catchall which captures under its umbrella a wide-ranging hierarchy of hidden powers; a combination of intelligence agencies and secret societies creating an Orwellian nightmare under the guise of a New World Utopia. *** << *** this is precisely what you have in mind. >Rockefeller, Rothschild, Kissinger, Cheney, Maurice Strong, Prince Philip, Prince Bernhard, most of the Windsor family, Ted Turner, Etienne Davignon, Martin Taylor, Richard Haas, Alan Greenspan, Robert Kagan, George HW Bush, Eberhard Sandschneider, Jeroen van der Veer, Franco Bernabe, James Wolfenson...the list is somewhat long but relative to the world population it's a very, very tiny one. It's not difficult to name them with a bit of research. And every one of them is an operative within their particular spheres of influence. Yes, as they should be -- they are the elites and the wealthy, but does that mean they are criminals?! In my opinion, the "bad guys", if one can call them that, are primarily the bankers and they are "bad" because they create money from nothing, the arms manufacturers because death is their business and the religions, because it's their business to promote hatred between people and therefore conflict. Big Oil, must also be mentioned because oil is the fuel which determines national power and the competition for oil has been at the root of much international conflict and, finally, I would suggest the main stream media (MSM) because it distributes the lies and propaganda necessary for conflict.