To: TobagoJack who wrote (24353 ) 10/20/2007 8:09:37 PM From: Archie Meeties Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 217573 There was a greater external and public cry to resolve, retreat from Vietnam than an internal in the early 70's. And so it was, the electorate found leaders that would extricate us from that mess. That will be repeated, only hopefully this time the lesson will be learned more thoroughly. "True political reform within the context of a two or three party electoral political system is most assuredly not a given, and in fact probably cannot be, systemically, because each party wwould try to 'capture' the center voters." But the center moves, and is moving. The political climate, laws, funding, even the direction of innovation and technology changes under different administrations. We can watch and see this together, and we can easily reflect that the behavior of the U.S. under Bill Clinton was far, far different than the U.S under GWB. I can reflect that your posting regarding politics and the US was different during that time as well, do you agree? "False argument, for the world in the majority would 'vote' with Russia and is, full stop." Recent UN votes demonstrate that the only other country voting with Russia is China, and the sentiment here is that China is only half voting with and mostly because they don't like the alternative, not that they are walking hand in hand with Putin. When it comes to Iran, which was the original subject, only Russia and China seek a different solution than the stringent sanctions sought by the US. The endgame here is unclear, but control of the Caspian is clearly on Russia's agenda. Iran is the pawn, but prevents the Cheney/Bush checkmate and opens up a new front on the Caspian. The next administration will likely not engage in this game, and will begin a new game - a game in which Russia has no pieces. "supports torture, is complicit in rape and murder, and is destined to fail, utterly>>" The crimes, the lies that have been perpetrated here and by the US - they are exposed and available for you and me to see, to discuss freely, and to more fully understand. The depravity of other countries is hidden by state controlled press, by opacity and "blackouts" in government. We selectively know more about our failings. And so, what you and I do not see can not repulse us, is not even a topic of discussion. We are left with our favorite example of misconduct, the U.S., which undoubtedly has made many mistakes in its past and will make many more. With any luck they will be chewed up, spit out, and recycled into a new path. Re China/Genocide in Sudan. Most US scholars or educated citizens do not believe that China has an active role in perpetrating or directly funding those who are conducting genocide. However, as China is a recipient of almost 100% of Sudanes oil and Sudans flow of capital is largely dependent on China, we do see China as perhaps the only nation capable of influencing internal policy in the Sudan to any extent (if the word "policy" even applies). To the extent that they are not, this would also qualify loosely as "enabling". I have no knowledge as to whether they are influencing or not influencing, only that genocide continues. Enjoying the discussion, Arch.