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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lou Weed who wrote (251264)	12/12/2007 3:58:21 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The troubles in NI started in 1969 and had nothing to do with the religious wars in Europe.....where do you get this stuff from?!? Hello, what century was the Battle of the Boyne? The Orangemen march to this day, and you're calling me ignorant? it was not a religious struggle, it was a struggle for freedom from an occupying power versus maintaining power over the occupied. It wasn't ONLY a religious struggle, but religion had a lot to do with making it worse. Cf. Oliver Cromwell's bloody Irish campaigns. This is what usually happens Nadine when an occupying power confiscates land from the original owners and plants their own people on it. Um, no it's not "usually" what happens. It's what occasionally happens when one ethnic group coalesces itself in opposition to another, usually because of insurmountable cultural differences, like say... religion. Or are the Anglo-Saxons still fighting off the Norman occupiers of England? How about the Greeks of Anatolia, are they still fighting off the Turks? One group of people moving into land somebody else lives in is the absolute commonplace of history, it's happened thousands of times, and there is no "usual" result, just variations of the results of fighting, running, mixing, interbreeding, blending or not. There is a large portion of modern day Irish that are descendants of the Normans and also the Vikings. Don't go by just snippets that you read.....there's always a bigger picture. The Scottish immigrants to Ulster came starting in the 16th century, and so are much later than the 11th century Normans or the even earlier 8th century Vikings. Furthermore, they were geographically concentrated in Ulster. You might try reading some history sometimes, instead of believing that being Irish gives you instant inherited information on this stuff. It may put you in touch with YOUR national myths, but that's not the same as history.

To: Lou Weed who wrote (251264)	12/12/2007 9:30:39 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Message 24127436 To nadines point, look at sarmas cartoon. On the face of it, it is not offensive i guess. But dont you see what he is doing here. There are political cartoons about every political movement and every religion. Romney and mormonism gets it worse than islam. There is nothing wrong with any of it. Its satire and man I could tell you some of the best Jewish jokes out there. BUT holocaust denial is not satire. Its a movement to discredit the rights of jews everywhere and particularly those in israel. This is what the holocaust deniers like sarman are trying to do. That asshole sarman knows the holocaust took place but cleverly insinuates that it didnt to suit his agenda.