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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (251270)	12/12/2007 10:14:30 AM
From: Lou Weed	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<Hello, what century was the Battle of the Boyne? The Orangemen march to this day, and you're calling me ignorant?>> There has been conflict and periods of peace in Ireland since the English invaded in the 1100s. Loyalists and Nationalists lived in NI peacefully from the time of the civil war in the 20s through the seperation of the north from the republic in 1948 and on to when the most recent trouble began in 1969. Thankfully they have entered back into a peaceful cohabitation. Orangemen had been marching every July throughout this period with no escalation of violence. There were always minor skirmishes but that was that....after the marching week, all back to normal. This has nothing to do with why the recent troubles began......its a battle from centuries ago that the Protestants celebrate annually.....there's your religious war theory blown out of the water.....doink! The recent trouble started with civil rights marches by the Catholic nationalists in the 60s protesting the civil injustice visited upon the nationalist community by the loyalist power base. The British Army was actually brought in to initially protect the nationalist community from violent outbursts by the loyalists. You should do better homework Nadine. <<It wasn't ONLY a religious struggle>> Thank you.....you're listening a little at least. <<Um, no it's not "usually" what happens.>> Um, yes it is. This is an occupier versus occupied struggle.....religion or insurmountable cultural differences are a subplot not unlike a certain struggle in the ME. See your statement above where you agree its not only a religious struggle. << The Scottish immigrants to Ulster came starting in the 16th century, and so are much later than the 11th century Normans or the even earlier 8th century Vikings. Furthermore, they were geographically concentrated in Ulster.>> More waffling.....where did I mention the Normans or Vikings having anything to do with the Scots? The Scottish influx prior to the plantation (pre-17th century) was primarily Catholic but the goal of the plantation (17th century onward) was to specifically plant significant numbers of Scottish Presbyterians to control the region. You need to read more carefully.... <<You might try reading some history sometimes, instead of believing that being Irish gives you instant inherited information on this stuff. It may put you in touch with YOUR national myths, but that's not the same as history.>> Your cocksure arrogance is astounding at times. I was born and lived in Ireland until I was 22 years old and I lived there during the worst periods of the whole conflict. My maternal grandparents were a Catholic Protestant mix so I had the privilege of seeing the conflict from WITHIN both communities. Believe me Nadine I am much more aware of what is fact and what is myth than you can ever dream of on this topic. Your knowledge of the struggle comes from......what? internet snippets from 4,000 miles and a cultural universe away. Spare me.....