>>skeeter,
I don't think you'll ever understand the point.
You and Warren may not like the fact that we aren't all blessed equally in terms of talents and/or living conditions, but that's the way it is. It's called life.<<
you misstate the point. some people are more fortunate than others due to good fortune, a point which i made and you contested. you seem to agree now, so there appears to be progress in your thought process.
i'd argue in our circumstances, life is what we CHOOSE TO DO, rather than what happens to us. that isn't true of many people for a variety of reasons. i do believe it is true of you and i, though.
>>The idea should be for everyone to try to maximize the hand they are dealt and make their life the best they can given their gifts and the conditions they were born into.<<
Wayne, i hope you understand when you are weak, due to some misfortune or plain old age, and NOBODY is there to help you except to pass along the following advice, "Wayne, do the best you can, 'cause i don't care enough to do anything for you." after all, that's your advice to others. to be bitter when it is applied to you would be hypocritical - and that isn't a virtue.
>>It's not always about material things to begin with.<<
then why do you fight so hard for material things?
>>Materially poor and other needy people can sometimes be richer in the ways that matter.<<
but i don't see you fighting for those other ways, Wayne. i see you fighting for cold hard cash in your pocket. where you spend your time and energy is where your heart is, Wayne. at least be honest about it.
>>If some rich people choose to help others out financially in ways that "you and Warren" approve of, that's great.<<
the world would be a better place, no? one of the prime reasons that the USA has been such a success compared to other forms of government is that it has had a sustainable working middle class. your idea to allow the rich to use their wealth to become more rich while forcing the middle and lower and class to pay a higher burden of the taxes is a recipe for disaster. make the middle class mad enough and heads start to roll, Wayne.
>>However, if they choose to lead their life another way and make contributions in ways you don't approve of equally, it should not be your business, Warren's business, or the government's business to dictate values to them.<<
a government with no power is no government at all, Wayne. you are either extremely naive or lazy. of course the government has to determine the ways to best keep itself operating - ever heard of tax law?
>>Just because money is involved doesn't make it any less of a "values issue" than when other people try to dictate social values that the left tends not to approve of.<<
leave the simple minded left and right paradigm alone, Wayne. expand your thought process beyond the simple. i'm not left - i evaluate issues on an individual basis. i discuss ideas, which is quite a bit different than trying to lump someone into a group. that makes less sense than astrology - at least they have 12 groups to lump people in to.
my philosophy is simple - those more fortunate in life should pay more for the government because they benefit from it more and, frankly, it is the morally decent thing to do.
i'm consistent here, too. if i'm poor, i want to pay less. since i'm not, i understand i have more responsibility and deal with it as an adult. i want to pay more of the burden because i'd be a pretty crappy person trying to force poor folks to pay more of the burden. of course, i'd like government to operate better but, realistically, it never will because human's are greedy, you know what i mean? they want to increase theirs without any consideration as to how it impacts others. that's what politician's do when they take a sane copyright law and sell out to the greedy corporations for money.
copyright was supposed to advance the useful sciences and art, instead, a few million dollars has perverted copyright into infinite ownership and defeated the entire purpose of copyright. every time copyright for mickey mouse comes up, a few dollars trades hands and new copyright laws are enforced.
i'm sure you understand their thought process. after all, these politicians that take all this money will use it more efficiently than anyone else so they feel they have a duty to sell out the nation to get the money. right, Wayne?
>>If you want to change the world, IMO the correct approach is to lead by example, do good in the world, and encourage others to do the same. Using the tax code to encourage what YOU want or to confiscate wealth that way (even partial amounts) is a very bad idea.<<
i understand that you think making the middle and lower class shoulder more of the tax burden is the way to go... so you can save a few bucks. i disagree that's the way to go.
>>IMO, you would understand that better if you had more of an appreciation for capitalism and freedom and focused more on all the things government destroys by using capital ineffectively, by spending money on things you personally hate, and by enriching the thieves.<<
uh, that *is* capitalism at work, Wayne. at least our version of it, which i hear is the best version to date. ;-)
it is a bit lacking to compare reality to some kind of imaginary vision that has never worked before in the history of humanity. kind of like, "if only israelites and palestinians treated each other kindly, we'd have peace in the middle east..." you should be able to see the difficulty of trying to hold a rational conversation if that is the basic thought process at work. it is more complex than Wayne wanting more his parents estate. Someone has to pay taxes to keep you free, Wayne. i know you want others to do so for you, but that's not a mature view, imho.
sure, we like to think we are good, we just fall short in doing good... and being honest about it.
we do keep going around and around, so let's try and narrow down the conversation. given the FACT that the current government spends what it spends and we can't change it, how would *you* pay the bill? i realize that fantasy land is much safer than reality, but reality is where the rubber hits the road and where all practical people dwell, so let's not waste any more time in the fantasy land of small and nimble government led by selfless folks who only care about "we the people." that government doesn't exist. |
