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Politics : Ask Michael Burke -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (110210)	12/17/2007 9:32:30 AM
From: Freedom Fighter	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 132070

>>skeeter, >you misstate the point. some people are more fortunate than others due to good fortune, a point which i made and you contested. you seem to agree now, so there appears to be progress in your thought process.< I NEVER said that some people aren't less fortunate. In fact, I highlighted the fact that Lebron James just happened to be more fortunate than I am (as a light hearted way of making the point), but I don't hold it against him. >Wayne, i hope you understand when you are weak, due to some misfortune or plain old age, and NOBODY is there to help you except to pass along the following advice, "Wayne, do the best you can, 'cause i don't care enough to do anything for you." after all, that's your advice to others. to be bitter when it is applied to you would be hypocritical - and that isn't a virtue.< This is more CRAP! I never said people should not be compassionate and giving. I said that YOU and WARREN SHOULD NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to tell people how and where they should give back to society. There is a huge difference between the two. It's a difference you don't seem to grasp. >>but i don't see you fighting for those other ways, Wayne.< What I am fighting for is the FREEDOM of the giver to give back to society the way he/she sees fit. You however, have a value system defined in your head that requires taxation and/or charitable giving and assume that that is the only way to give back to society. That is false. You only feel that way because you are closet capitalism hater or don't even understand it. All of the above provide jobs, incomes, increased standards of living etc... for people in need. Government just happens to be the worst of the 3 options because it gets the worst value and maximizes the reduction of freedom. >the world would be a better place, no? one of the prime reasons that the USA has been such a success compared to other forms of government is that it has had a sustainable working middle class. your idea to allow the rich to use their wealth to become more rich while forcing the middle and lower and class to pay a higher burden of the taxes is a recipe for disaster. make the middle class mad enough and heads start to roll, Wayne.< All I can say is that IMO you DO NOT understand the system you live in, why we have a middle class, or what I am saying. Deep down inside you dislike capitalism or have fallen for much of the propaganda of those that hate it. That makes it impossible for you understand my points. I think further discussion is a waste of time. Besides, half the time you have a pattern of attacking things I never said in order to make your points.

To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (110210)	12/17/2007 11:55:29 AM
From: Pogeu Mahone	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 132070

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To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (110210)	12/17/2007 11:58:41 AM
From: Freedom Fighter	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 132070

Skeeter, >given the FACT that the current government spends what it spends and we can't change it, how would you pay the bill?< I'll respond to this because it's an important question. Your assumptions are false. WE CAN CHANGE IT and WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR ANYTHING! We just have to elect people that are willing to change things. People from both sides that are willing to change things run all the time. They just never get elected in sufficient numbers to change anything dramatically. They will get elected in sufficient numbers when the system collapses. But they may not change it in the right direction. It depends on which side wins. In the mean time, IMO the proper course of action is to limit government spending increases to the rate of inflation. That way government would slowly shrink as a percentage of GDP because all the "real GDP" growth would accrue to the private sector and be used more effectively. We would also soon start living within our means instead according to our desires. At the same time, the government could continue to deliver on the things on which the government has made some people dependent in it's long history of stupidity. To accomplish that, all the pyramid scheme type programs where promises are made before the government even knows what it is promising or what the resources will be like in the future (like medicare and Social Security) would require major overhauls (downward). There would also probably have to be a shifting of resources within the existing government pie to better fit the ever changing needs. The one thing I would never ever do is exactly what you are asking me to do - PAY FOR IT. That's because it would be dumber than a rock and cause even greater problems than we have now. Do I think it will happen my way? No! I think we will either run up deficits and eventually collapse the currency or raise taxes (on the rich, middle class, and everyone else), expand the promises, become more socialized, hurt the goose that lays the golden egg, stagnate, have lower standards of living than we would have had, have more problems that we would have had, have more poor and needy than we would have had, and wind up in a much worse place than we would have. So I try to prepare myself for the results of the stupidity of others. I hope you will respect my desire to end this conversation now. I feel it's impossible to have a conversation with someone that is constantly accusing me of saying and believing things that I didn't say and don't believe in order to attack me. Furthermore, I think you have the typical inconsistent and unprincipled view that allows you to say you believe in freedom but at the same time try to dictate your values when you deem appropriate but fight and complain when others try to dictate theirs. You miss the whole point of freedom.