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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Katelew who wrote (48036)	2/5/2008 4:14:19 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541330

OPEC and other oil producing nations will sell to us because they are in the business of selling their oil. We are a customer and these countries receive most of their revenues by selling their oil to their customers. As long as we can pay for oil, there will be a producer willing to sell it to us. But military threats and conquest disrupt supply, and if we had allowed them to stand (say let Iraq keep Kuwait) they would funnel the revenue more and more to the most odious regimes. Also you undermining your own argument more than your undermining mine. If we don't have to worry, whoever has the oil will sell it to us, than our military expenditures are not about oil... But let's say one or several of the big producers decide not to sell to us. Are you suggesting we would then use military force to take the oil? Generally no. I'm suggesting we should keep country A from conquering country B and taking its oil off the market, or from threatening or stopping the supply line from country C. If so, your scenario could be extended to all natural resources, couldn't it? Yes, but just as with oil, its not about taking by force. All resources are finite. Presumably, toward the end, those countries with resources will begin to husband them for use by their own populations. Do you see the United States, a so-called Christian nation, overpowering such countries with military force to grab the last bits for ourselves? Well I suppose a war of conquest for resources is possible, but I don't see it likely, or support the concept. As for resources being finite... yes and no... They are always finite, but the resources we are in position to use are always expanding. True there is a final eventual limit, but the universe, or even just the Earth, has a limit a lot larger than any of the transient limits we face at any particular time. I much prefer a scenario of US government funding to achieve self-sufficiency as quickly as possible. I don't see that as being really realistic, or something that I would support a large effort to achieve. Since the gulf is the low cost/large reserve reason. Self sufficiency either means NO oil use, or passing laws forcing oil imports, making a large effort to enforce those laws, and forcing Americans to pay more for oil, hurting both our producers and consumers. Just reducing oil use by what we currently import, won't do the trick.

To: Katelew who wrote (48036)	2/5/2008 4:23:04 PM
From: Katelew	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541330

For all the Dem voters on this thread, I'm happy to pass on some news from my neck of the woods. I live the NW corner of the state and it is ultra-conservative. It has voted Republican for over 100 years. The only Dem names I recall seeing through the years were in local elections, although the school boards and most of the judges here are Republican. In the big elections, the voter turnout is always fewer Democrats....for every ten Reps, maybe 8 Dems show up to vote. There is, however, a significant registered Independent group of voters, I've been told. The representations among those who voted early was just released in the local paper. First, we had more than expected folks vote early. Second, the turnout was more than two times as many Democrats. In fact, the ratio was 2.2 democratic voters showed up and voted early as did one republican. This may mean nothing when all the primary votes are counted later tonight, but I doubt it. I think it's meaningful and it means that in my county Democrats are coming out of the woodwork and making their voices heard. It is exciting, although I find myself wondering where the heck all these dem voters have been the last 20 years or so that I've been watching politics more closely.