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To: koan who wrote (77468)	4/9/2008 1:32:37 PM
From: Broken_Clock	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116555

I think cultural and intellectual evolution is mankinds manifest destiny ---- How you gonna judge this? What benchmark? So far, based on using man's inhumanity to man, we are devolving.

To: koan who wrote (77468)	4/9/2008 5:12:32 PM
From: Oblomov	Respond to of 116555

I just don't buy the idea of historical destiny, least of all a manifest destiny. Manifest destiny is an example of what Eric Voegelin (and later, the Discordians -g-)called "immanentizing the eschaton". Didn't our manifest destiny in the 19th century, and that of the Germans and Soviets in the 20th, culminate in genocide? During the debate on female suffrage in the US, one of the arguments made by the suffragettes was that it would increase the prominence of civilized values and would reduce the likelihood of going to war. This argument made sense- the US was still reeling from WW I, which of course the US never should have entered. We know how that turned out. The US fell into nearly all the blood-lakes of the 20th century, and of the 21st, with women voting their heads off alongside the men. Meanwhile, Switzerland managed to avoid war, and went from poverty to great prosperity, and yet did not allow women to vote on the federal level until 1971. So, as with voting rights, I'm unconvinced that there is a link between quality of governance and plumbing.