To: RetiredNow who wrote (381945 ) 5/1/2008 2:27:56 PM From: i-node Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 1574256 >>> if we are viewed as torturers, then we can't credibly take moral stands on human rights issues with the biggest abusers What if we don't torture (we don't, haven't, and won't in the future) but we are viewed as torturers anyway? There is no documented case of Americans "torturing" anyone in modern times. Yes, there were some prison guards acting out. But that wasn't torture. >>> if we ignore multi-lateral approaches to problem solving, then we destroy the collaborative frameworks that we've built to solve international problems to our benefit, without breaking our bank If you want to provide specific examples, I'll be glad to discuss THOSE examples with you -- it goes nowhere to try and discuss vague concepts with you. >>>> * if we are hated around the world, then our business men will find it more difficult to interact and strike favorable deals Oh, bull-oney. Money makes the world go round. If China has something they want to sell and we'll pay for it, they don't give a tinker's damn about whether they "like" us or not. The same is true of EVERY single product we import. What bigger proof could you have than the Saudi's (who purportedly hate our guts) selling us all the oil they can pump? >>>> * if we are hated, then people will be more reluctant to emigrate here and our talent pool and the influx of new ideas which is our lifeblood will dry up Ha. What a crock. We don't need immigrants. We're doing these people a favor. Have you not figured that out? Why in hell do you think EVERYONE -- even the people who purportedly "HATE" us, are trying to get in the US? You call ME ignorant? That's a laugh.