To: cnyndwllr who wrote (70182 ) 6/2/2008 5:03:06 AM From: ManyMoose Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 540995 Very interesting! I do see your point. It's true that I've led a pretty cautious life, in that I respect my life and don't put it to unnecessary risks. I've pulled a few boners besides the slingshot incident; however, I knew enough about the difference between right and wrong to be sneaky about bending the rules so I wouldn't get caught for the few minor 'crimes' I committed. Following the rules does have its advantages. For example, people trend to trust you. My parents and those of my buddy allowed us to buy .22 pistols for use on our high country trapline, where we caught marten and bobcats, and spent glorious days by ourselves on snowshoes in the woods. We were thirteen. We trapped for a couple of years, and when we were fifteen we sold our furs and both bought two .44 magnum pistols, which we also carried on the trapline. That was fifty years ago. Both of us still have our .22s and .44s and have never committed a crime or killed anything illegally with them. I've never been to the Museum of Natural History in your city (I'm inferring from your handle that you live in New York City), but at one time there was a display diorama based on Crater Lake National Park that included two mounted pine marten (Martes americanus). I caught those two marten on my trapline. They were bought for the purpose from me by a game warden, who, following my snowshoe trail one day concluded that I had trapped across the state line. He called me and challenged me on it. I told him quite confidently that I knew that my trapline was ON the state line, but never crossed it. After discussing the issue over a map, he concluded that I was right, and offered to buy the marten from me for that display. Apparently the museum had an order out for the subspecies of marten that I had, and there were no other trappers active at the time. I got paid double the usual rate for the two pelts. I do not think that being able to 'just say no' necessarily means one is unable to think outside the box. I think it stems from knowing right from wrong and choosing correctly, not failing to exercise judgment on the margins. I know the kind of micro-managers that you are referring to. I've seen them operate in the field in exactly the same role that I spent my career in. They felt compelled to tell their subordinates what to do every day, and as a result had to hire extra people to do the job that they themselves were certified to do. It made much more sense to me to get the hell out of my subordinates' way so they could do the work, and check for results. That way I was freed up to do the kind of stuff I was particularly suited to do. Yes, indeed. Give me a Winston Churchill or a Teddy Roosevelt every time. Being able to say no to drugs and bad behavior does not necessarily mean you can't think outside the box. On the contrary, I view it as a necessary survival skill. Thanks for making me think.