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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (21856)	6/5/2008 10:31:06 AM
From: neolib	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36917

What mechanism are you confused about? CO2, despite all of Watsons nonsense absorbs LW radiation in bands which H2O does not. In high H2O high pressure environments (like the lower tropical atmosphere) CO2 does not have much effect, because H2O absorption is near saturation, and the absorption lines are broadened, so H2O more nearly covers the CO2 spectrum. In the upper atmosphere and in colder air this is not the case. As the 6-easy steps pointed out, CO2 in the atmosphere accounts for about 30W/m2 per the best accounting of it. If you or Watson think differently, by all means write a paper on the subject. As I pointed out, I don't know of any credible scientists who doubt this, but both you and Watson seem confused on that point as well.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (21856)	6/6/2008 12:34:26 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36917

I just walked outside. I have a microtemp MTPRO, it is a non contact IR thermometer, It observes a 5 degree cone. aiming at the overcast sky from horizon to verticle it measured 55.F That is the current air temperature. The MTPRO measures -76 to 900+F IR in the 5-14um spectrum. The closest to me current report, by a radio shack kit 3 miles away. 2008_June06,12:02PM \| 59.9 °F \| Dew Point: 55°F \| Humidity: 83% \| Visibility: 5.0miles \| Wind Gust:4.0 \| Pressure: 29.79in \| Overcast 300 ft / 91 m Get the dew point down to 32F and looking up my instrument will see -50 and even lower in clear skys. Else it reads the temp of the clouds being viewed. That is the tangible measurement of the impact of h20 for variations of humidity. I have a 60 dollar tool. It seems with all the bucks others have no one can observe by any means a temperature change caused by several ppm annual variation of CO2 measured at MonaLoa. Yet CO2 is assigned 32W/m^2 and H20 is assigned 60 W/m^2 in radiative forcing. So to me the numbers given are meaningless in any real world mechanism.