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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (72248)	6/14/2008 5:56:36 PM
From: Dale Baker	Respond to of 542024

Inherent in that will be some process for sorting terrorists out from the rest of the people on the planet. For the terrorists, you establish some defined disposition. Obviously, you don't do anything with the innocent. They are not part of the system. They are left alone. But we haven't exercised that caution in Afghanistan or Iraq. We rounded up all kinds of people, did what we wanted with them and threw some back later if we changed our minds. Some of them we still hold in Guantanamo. We define "terrorists" as anyone is who a "militant" or "extremist" by some vague definition that is probably highly classified, and often anybody else who is around one of the above when our troops show up. It's a messy muddle. And this administration has done nothing except keep it as murky as possible so they wouldn't be subject to any oversight from the rest of the government, the electorate or the world. If you don't have a grip on what a terrorist is and what you want to do with him, you are nowhere. Welcome to our world.

To: Lane3 who wrote (72248)	6/14/2008 5:57:11 PM
From: Steve Lokness	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542024

Lane3; Obviously, you don't do anything with the innocent. They are not part of the system. They are left alone. That's horse crap. That's what courts do - decide who is guilty and who is innocent. steve

To: Lane3 who wrote (72248)	6/14/2008 7:02:12 PM
From: spiral3	Respond to of 542024

If you sort out the terrorist thing, I wouldn't oppose sorting it out, but the default position without habeas corpus is "bad news" and I think it's important to recognize how this is perceived by those that wish to cause us harm. The immoral treatment of these people is amongst the most potent of jihadi recruitment tools, it ties right back in to their general thesis, that we are an immoral nation. Granting this to your enemies is a strategic error in the war on t error imo . The t stands for torture. What the US does, period, should not be what Saddam did. How has the rest of the world treated terrorists, do we really need to re-invent the wheel. I don't see why we should mess with the constitution which grants power to an otherwise powerless govt, the challenge seems to be how to deal with these people from within the current system, which brings us back to your point <g>.

To: Lane3 who wrote (72248)	6/14/2008 7:11:20 PM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542024

>>No, I think not. First you have to figure out what you're going to do with and about terrorists. If you don't have a grip on what a terrorist is and what you want to do with him, you are nowhere. Inherent in that will be some process for sorting terrorists out from the rest of the people on the planet. For the terrorists, you establish some defined disposition. Obviously, you don't do anything with the innocent. They are not part of the system. They are left alone.<< Karen - I agree that you have to decide what to do with terrorists, though I don't see why it should be so difficult. Our justice system seems to be able to deal with all kinds of criminals. It dealt with the people who bombed the WTC in 1993, and it dealt with Timothy McVeigh, et al. Why do we need to have a whole different set of processes and principles to deal with terrorists now? The specific question of Habeas Corpus, however, which is what this weeks Supreme Court decision was about, is all about the innocent. And the problem is that the innocent have not been left alone. There have been and most surely are innocent people at Guantanamo, and probably in other US facilities around the world. - Allen