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Strategies & Market Trends : 2026 TeoTwawKi ... 2032 Darkest Interregnum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Ilaine who wrote (36449)7/2/2008 9:05:27 AM
From: Moominoid  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 217571
 
The rate of growth has been quite incredible for such a huge economy. Faster than the earlier tiger economies including Japan when they were catching up to the West. But yes it is a similar phenomenon. I don't think it is removal of communism per se. Korea was starting from a similarly poor mainly rural starting point. OTOH the more developed Eastern European economies have not seen mostly the same kind of effect of the removal of communism. It depends also what you replace it with. But yes, liberalization of the economy can unleash incredible catch up growth. We'll have to see whether China can take it to the next stage. You know 18 years ago I was reading articles about how Singapore was doomed and couldn't go to the next level of development because its education system wasn't as good as Japan's or some nonsense. This was in international relations journals in the only international relations course I ever took in the first year of my PhD program (I did a PhD in geography, though I'm mostly an economist really - I did my BA in geography and economics and my last job before moving back to Australia was as professor of economics). Yeah, IR is a mostly useless field as far as I can tell :) Anyway, that certainly proved to be wrong. So I think China will likely do fine in that regard too. Eventually, there'll be more and more cutting edge science etc. done in China. And the political system will continue to liberalize... but slowly.

The attitude to China, here in Australia is quite different to that in the US of course. China is seen more or less as the "great benefactor" who is willing to pay silly prices for our resources. I'm planning to go on my first trip there in October. Will be like my first visit to the US (when I came to do that PhD)- I met so many Americans and knew so much about the US before visiting, was interesting to put things into context. Of course my trip to China will be much shorter, but I expect there'll be a lot more in my future :)



To: Ilaine who wrote (36449)7/2/2008 9:09:55 AM
From: carranza2  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 217571
 
Like all of us, you've had good gains in real estate.

Do you seriously contend that these gains are sustainable?

I don't.

I've mentally marked down my current gains.

If you think things are fine and getting better, you are simply not paying attention or simply influenced by your dislike for Jay. Forget about that and look at facts.

I am not saying TEOTWAKI is here or around the corner - I have no opinion on that - but I can say with confidence that things are not good and are not getting better for most Americans.

Look at the value of the dollar.

Look at the stock market.

Look at the trade deficit.

Look at government debt and spending.

Look at the credit imbroglio.

Look at the banks.

Look at real estate on a nation-wide basis.

Look at growth.

Look at inflation.

Look at food costs.

Look at oil and gasoline prices.

Look at what the BIS - the most objective outfit out there - has to say.

Look at what the Concord Coalition has to say about our national debt and its influence on national prospects:

concordcoalition.org

If you disagree, tell me why things are so great.

You like to stake out positions and reflexively defend them regardless of the merits. No malice here at all in that comment, simply an observation born of experience. But you are not stupid, and I'm a man on a mission to convert as many smart people as I can to our economic problems for they will be inherited by our sons and daughters. We owe them, at a minimum, the time to become informed and vocal about the perils we face.

Read this [the quote that follows is a blurb from the linked article]:

Message 24703302

Let's take a quick look at BIS working paper number 137, "The Great Depression as a Credit Boom Gone Wrong", published in 2003 by BIS author's Barry Eichengreen and Kris Mitchener. In that delightful read (published right before the U.S. housing boom went parabolic) the Bank tells us how credit bubbles lead to real busts.

"A capsule account of the role of credit in macroeconomic cycles, as informed by the experience of the 1990s, would go something like this. There is first an upswing in economic activity. As the economy expands, banks and financial markets provide an expanding volume of credit to finance the growth of both consumption and investment, particularly where regulation is lax and competition among bank and nonbank financial intermediaries is intense."

"Whether because the exchange rate is pegged or for other reasons such as a positive supply shock, upward pressure on wholesale and retail prices is subdued. Hence, the central bank has no obvious reason to tighten and stem the growth of money and credit, leading to a further expansion of output and further increase in credit."

"Higher property and securities prices encourage investment activity, especially in interest-sensitive activities like construction. But, as lending expands, increasingly risky investments are underwritten. The demand for risky investments rises with the supply, since, in the prevailing environment of stable prices, nominal interest rates and therefore yields on safe assets are low.

"In search of yield, investors dabble increasingly in risky investments. Their appetite for risk is stronger still to the extent that these trends coincide with the development of new technologies, in particular network technologies of promising but uncertain commercial potential."

"Eventually, all this construction and investment activity, together with the wealth effect on consumption, produces signs of inflationary pressure, causing the central bank to tighten. The financial bubble is pricked and, as asset prices decline, the economy is left with an overhang of ill-designed, non-viable investment projects, distressed banks, and heavily indebted households and firms, aggravating the subsequent downturn."



To: Ilaine who wrote (36449)7/2/2008 9:10:59 AM
From: TobagoJack  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 217571
 
<<not a zero sum game. China going up doesn't mean the US going down. That's where Jay goes wrong, he thinks like a video game>>

come on cb ilaine, most unbecoming, for i very specifically noted just a few posts ago that Message 24723158
"... not so much that a collapse of the usd monetary system is a pre-condition for china's return to the natural mean, but that both will happen in the same 3D space ..."

as to video game, something else entirely, and specifically to do with investment Message 24723303

"... The game has no precise rules, changing all the time, allows for no respite, tolerates no quitters, has few winners, and eventually kills all, to the very last man.

The object of the game is to perish well as opposed to miserable.

Oops, announcer saying "Players, get ready, on three, two, ...""


now, about usa and china / row, the current oil situation is interesting, in that (i) energy is still mostly priced in usd, (ii) the world is tiring from usd, (iii) the empire needs external financing but at reasonable cost, (iv) the rest of the world requires affordable energy in own currencyterms, including usa, and yet (v) most of row are fearful of monetary inflation without regret, and so, and usa is fearful of high interest rate

something will break, and soon enough, per simple math and by not very complicated logic

(a) will the world go off of the usd standard now so as to have stable energy pricing

(b) will the fed/officialdom choose to implode usa asset base (i.e. including but not limited to your home equity) in sacrifice for continued external financing on reasonable terms

(c) will the fed/officialdom choose to sacrifice the dollar, and forego external financing, blow up usa energy security, so as to save wastrel home owners and decrepit banking system

(d) will china go insanely focused on developing domestic consumption and infrastructure economy, and force the economy to face inward as well as move westward (rural/inland), while still spending large sums to secure whatever it takes, or

(e) will china print-along with the wastrel to get-along with the wastrel, and risking domestic chaos and an unappetizing end game

my guesses? yes on (a), (c), and (d), timing unknowable, and the possible trip wires could be any of below, singly or in concert, but with a lag:

(i) any attack on iran
(ii) obama actually takes team usa out of iraq
(iii) europe turns away from washington when domestic audience gets democratically fed up with ever rising euro and still rising energy per courtesy of russia
(iv) the japan that can say no says no to usd

in case you are not aware, we are at the next level of the video game now

meaning your home equity will likely be toast by monetary inflation and interest rate increase, your energy cost will inexorably rise relaive to your income statement and balance sheet, and your neighborhood will get progressively more hostile and generally more unpleasant, unless you take action of very decisive nature with alacrity and without hesitation

strategic recommendation: start by borrowing usd and buygold (which would have yielded more than your home stake in the same time span that i had been making the recommendation to specifically you, starting in 2001. the recommended wager's best times are still ahead of us, i suspect.

p.s. just dined on delicious everything at the "xijiao state guest house" ( hotelxijiao.com ) where your friend putin and enemy hu jin tao hang out when the shanghai cooperation orgaization powwows. the location is good, food superb, atmosphere great, environment green with bamboo. all lovely.

p.p.s. you do of course notice that in one cogent message i have knotted together usa, china, russia, middle east, wastrelism, your friend putin, your enemy hu jin tao, neat and tidy japan, your house, my gold, your world view, my frame of reference, teotwawki, dark interregnum (see embedded links)

suggestion: print the message out, so as to better ponder its beauty, appreciate its connectedness, wonder about its meaning, and follow its advice