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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Maurice Winn who wrote (256787)7/4/2008 6:44:40 PM
From: steve harris  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 794012
 
I disagree with your views of major historical events.

Your views though do align with the rewriting of history that is taking place by an antiAmerican minority who are responsible for our failed national education system.



To: Maurice Winn who wrote (256787)7/4/2008 9:14:39 PM
From: Brumar89  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 794012
 
Reagan was just a bystander.

Sober historians know better. Even died in the wool liberals don't deny Reagan's role in ending the Cold War.

Ronald Reagan began massively building up the United States military not long after taking office. This led to the largest peacetime defense buildup in United States history.[129] Tensions continued intensifying in the early 1980s when Reagan revived the B-1 bomber program that was canceled by the Carter administration, produced MX "Peacekeeper" missiles,[130] installed US cruise missiles in Europe, and announced his experimental Strategic Defense Initiative, dubbed "Star Wars" by the media, a defense program to shoot down missiles in mid-flight.[131] Reagan also imposed economic sanctions on Poland to protest the suppression of the opposition Solidarity movement. In response, Mikhail Suslov, the Kremlin's top ideologist, advised the Soviet leaders not to intervene if Poland fell under the control of Solidarity, as it may have led to heavy economic sanctions representing a catastrophe for the USSR's economy.[132]

After Reagan's military buildup, the Soviet Union did not respond by further building its military[133] because the enormous military expenses, along with inefficient planned manufacturing and collectivized agriculture, were already a heavy burden for the Soviet economy.[134] At the same time, Reagan persuaded Saudi Arabia to increase oil production,[135] even as other non-OPEC nations were increasing production.[136] These developments contributed to the 1980s oil glut, which affected the Soviet Union, as oil was the main source of Soviet export revenues.[134][137] The decrease in oil prices and large military expenditures gradually brought the Soviet economy to a stagnant state at this time.[134]
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Meanwhile, the Soviets incurred high costs for their own foreign interventions. Although Brezhnev was convinced in 1979 that the Soviet war in Afghanistan would be brief, Muslim guerrillas, aided by many countries (especially the US), waged a fierce resistance against the invasion.[141] The Kremlin sent nearly 100,000 troops to support its puppet regime in Afghanistan, leading many outside observers to dub the war "the Soviets' Vietnam".[141] However, Moscow's quagmire in Afghanistan was far more disastrous for the Soviets than Vietnam had been for the Americans because the conflict coincided with a period of internal decay and domestic crisis in the Soviet system. A senior US State Department official predicted such an outcome as early as 1980, positing that the invasion resulted in part from a "domestic crisis within the Soviet system. ... It may be that the thermodynamic law of entropy has ... caught up with the Soviet system, which now seems to expend more energy on simply maintaining its equilibrium than on improving itself. We could be seeing a period of foreign movement at a time of internal decay".[142][143] The Soviets were not helped by their aged and sclerotic leadership either: Brezhnev, virtually incapacitated in his last years, was succeeded by Andropov and Chernenko, neither of whom lasted long. After Chernenko's death, Reagan was asked why he had not negotiated with Soviet leaders. Reagan quipped, "They keep dying on me".[144]
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By the time the comparatively youthful Mikhail Gorbachev had ascended to power in 1985,[145] the Soviets suffered from an economic growth rate close to zero percent, combined with a sharp fall in hard currency earnings as a result of the downward slide in world oil prices in the 1980s.[146] To restructure the Soviet economy, Gorbachev announced an agenda of reform, called perestroika. Within two years, however, Gorbachev came to the conclusion that deeper structural changes were necessary.[147] Gorbachev redirected the country's resources from costly Cold War military commitments to more profitable areas in the civilian sector.[147] Many US Soviet experts and administration officials doubted that Gorbachev was serious about winding down the arms race,[148] but the new Soviet leader eventually proved more concerned about reversing the Soviet Union's deteriorating economic condition than fighting the arms race with the West.[66]
The Kremlin made major military and political concessions; in response Reagan agreed to renew talks on economic issues and the scaling-back of the arms race.[149]
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The following year, the Soviets officially declared that they would no longer intervene in the affairs of allied states in Eastern Europe:[154] oil and gas subsidies, along with the cost of maintaining massive troops levels, represented an economic drain and the security advantage of a buffer zone was so reduced that by 1990 Gorbachev consented to German reunification.[155] In 1989, Soviet forces withdrew from Afghanistan.[156]

In December 1989, Gorbachev and Reagan's successor, George H. W. Bush, declared the Cold War over at a summit meeting in Malta;[157] a year later, the two former rivals were partners in the Gulf War against longtime Soviet ally Iraq.[158]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

"Tear down this wall" was the famous challenge from United States President Ronald Reagan to Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev to destroy the Berlin Wall.

In a speech at the Brandenburg Gate commemorating the 750th anniversary of Berlin,[1][2] by the Berlin Wall on June 12, 1987, Reagan challenged Gorbachev, then the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, to tear it down as a symbol of his desire for increasing freedom in the Eastern Bloc.
...
The Brandenburg Gate site was chosen to highlight the President's conviction that Western democracy offered the best hope to open the Berlin Wall.[2] His speech focused on a series of political initiatives to achieve this end. The famous "tear down this wall" phrase was intended as the logical conclusion of the President's proposals. As the speech was being drafted, inclusion of the words became a source of considerable controversy within the Reagan administration. Several senior staffers and aides advised against the phrase, saying anything which might cause further East-West tensions or potential embarrassment to Gorbachev, with whom President Reagan had built a good relationship, should be omitted. American officials in West Germany and presidential speechwriters, including Peter Robinson, thought otherwise. Robinson traveled to West Germany to inspect potential speech venues, and gained an overall sense that the majority of West Berliners opposed the wall. Despite getting little support for suggesting Reagan demand the wall's removal, Robinson included the phrase in the speech text. On May 18, 1987, President Reagan met with his speechwriters and responded to the speech by saying, "I thought it was a good, solid draft." Chief of Staff Howard Baker objected, saying it sounded "extreme" and "unpresidential," and Deputy National Security Advisor Colin Powell agreed. Nevertheless, Reagan liked the passage, saying, "I think we'll leave it in."[7]
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That afternoon, Reagan said,

“ We welcome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace. General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization, come here to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall![9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_down_this_wall

Reagan didn't just pressure the USSR militarily and economically, he recognized the power of ideas. Thanks for giving us the opportunity of remembering this great American president and his leadership this 4th.

Saddam made a big mistake being fooled by April Glaspie into invading Kuwait.

More mythology.

Kuwait should be part of Iraq. The arbitrary British boundaries meant few people benefited from the huge oil wealth of Kuwait. At the time they were drawn, the borders were obviously a good idea.

Iraq has given up that claim. Only Saddam was behind it. Kuwait hadn't been a part of the Turkish empire and signed a treaty with the Brits long before oil was discovered there.



To: Maurice Winn who wrote (256787)7/8/2008 1:19:26 PM
From: TimF  Respond to of 794012
 
"Defeating Gorby in favor of Osama" isn't a very reasonable way to look at the American intervention against Soviet operations in Afghanistan. Many of the Afghani people who fight against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan today are the same people, or the sons of, or other relatives of, or allies and associates of, the people who fought the Soviets years ago.

If the US hadn't support the opposition to the Soviets, the opposition, including OBL and his ilk, would have left Afghanistan and worked somewhere else. Or perhaps they would have eventually prevailed anyway, after much more death and destruction in Afghanistan, and we would have had less allies and contacts in Afghanistan to assist in our overthrow of the Taliban, and the initial stages of trying to build a new Afghanistan.

Meanwhile the Soviet empire would have continued for a longer time, and along with it the cold war, and its possible the ending may have not been as peaceful as it was historically.

Saddam made a big mistake being fooled by April Glaspie into invading Kuwait.

Another rather bizarre way to pose the issue.

Glaspie pointed out that the controversy over slant drilling at the border and other issues between Iraq and Kuwait was for the two countries to settle themselves, and was not an issue where the US had a real interest. There is a big jump from not having an interest in the negotiations to settle the issue on one hand and "its ok if you invade" on the other.

If not by fair means, then foul. Kuwait should be part of Iraq. The arbitrary British boundaries meant few people benefited from the huge oil wealth of Kuwait.

A large fraction of the countries of the world have arbitrary boundaries. With a lose enough interpretation of the word, most of, possibly almost all of, the boundaries of nations are arbitrary in some way. That doesn't give much support to changing any of them.

If the issue was having more countries benefit from the wealth, maybe Kuwait should be given to Bangladesh, it has a lot more people than Iraq, and they are poorer. But of course that isn't an issue. "few people benefiting from" is not justification for changing boundaries.