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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: maceng2 who wrote (22129)	7/10/2008 9:13:18 PM
From: neolib	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 36917

Yeah, the sun is generally treated as a black body and as you note, the surface is plasma. That was my first thought when reading the claim that black body radiation only applies to solids. LOL!

To: maceng2 who wrote (22129)	7/11/2008 7:12:24 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Respond to of 36917

So you cannot comprehend that the temperature on the surface of the earth is in the range of 300K and the terperature of the sun is 6kK and "When dealing with black body radiation, the physics, the equations and the empirical constants (empirical constants, numbers made up and assigned to make the equations work.) all really deals with that of solids bodies. That is to say the constants only work with solids and less so with liquids and are meaningless with regards to gases for the temperatures found in the Earth's climate. Defend the religion of CO2 magic properties. look for reasons of poor application of physical laws to suggest I am in error. Do not try to show where your equations for emissions of matter in the phase of air are as they do not exist except in the suppositions of anonymous modelers secret model equations. They are not published or explained anywhere correctly. Except maybe toms.homeip.net

To: maceng2 who wrote (22129)	7/12/2008 6:27:41 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 36917

PB, have you heard of ice? <Very little of the Earths climate components are in solid form, most of them are in the gaseous state (phase) or liquid state (phase).> How about limestone? Coal? I suppose you mean just the reflection and radiation aspects in which case coal and limestone are irrelevant. But ice is hardly insignificant. Ice does a lot of reflecting and not much radiation. Snow cover is an excellent reflector as people on snow without brown skin or sun protection can attest. They get sunburned from below. Ice in the sky, in the form of snow, is also solid and does a good job of reflection. It reflects very well whether it is airborne or has fallen onto the ground. I have to admit that if I had to explain the physics of The Greenhouse Effect I couldn't do it. Yes, I know the simpleton explanation, that CO2 keeps the heat in, but exactly how the interactions work in practise, when convection in stupendously huge amounts is accounted for is beyond my current knowledge. So far, the actual temperature changes which have resulted from a century of effort in CO2 emissions do not suggest we are having much success at all in raising the temperature. We have raised CO2 levels somewhat, but haven't got much to show for it, unless we accept that if we hadn't done all that CO2 emission we'd now be heading into glaciation so we PREVENTED the temperature falling. Judging by the long term CO2 and temperature correlations, we seem unlikely to flip up to the higher averages which occur at 1500 to 3000 ppm levels of CO2. There is theory that 450ppm might do it, but that does appear to be so from the historical record. 1000 ppm might do it. But we are a very long way from that, with Peak Oil proponents saying we won't get there. With coal and bituminous deposits coming on stream, CO2 production should continue apace. But with Peak People going to kick in in 2037, and continuing technological developments improving GDP per BTU and per capita, carbon burning seems likely to dwindle this century as part of our GDP and ways of life. Already, my efforts in CO2 production are falling. I used to produce quite a bit, but I'm letting the side down these days. Too much time in cyberspace instead of driving, for a start. Mqurice