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Politics : Welcome to Slider's Dugout -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 9:18:56 AM
From: Jamey  Respond to of 50101
 
Very fine history lesson, Slider. But you are telling "the herd" to sell their insurance policy and go their merry way, not even considering we are way overdue for a major terrorist attack. What will the poor broke followers do when they wake up to a dirty bomb or worse going off in their city? That's the thing about insurance. Ma, we don't need to repair that hole in the roof. It's stopped raining!!

I advise caution about following your history lesson.

Trey



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 10:51:52 AM
From: RonMerks  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50101
 
Dude, you must be a glutton for punishment- because theyre going to come out of the woodwork after you on that one! Talk about rubbing salt in the wound.

But how true! You hit the bullseye on all those puffy, full of hype headlines and the endless stream of crap that comes out of the vast majority of gold newsletters and the gurus on GoldEagle and Kitco.

It's a 24/7 one sided all news is good news show. Every correction is either a cabal led market manipulation- or a dip that should be bought. And of course- no top is high enough to EVER take profits atop- because gold is ALWAYS going higher.

I'm sure the guru community is hating your guts right about now. I'd have someone else open the mail for a few weeks (vbg).

Ron



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 11:05:23 AM
From: TRINDY  Respond to of 50101
 
Greetings. Keep up the fine work and contributions that you make to SI. I've been reading your work for lo these last ten years, to my considerable benefit. Cheers!



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 11:49:53 AM
From: Claude Cormier  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50101
 
A very nice piece. Congrats.

Very few see the immense volatility in the precious metals market and too many see only the headlines made by the hyper bullish gurus.

However, the line in the sand is clear for gold. It is a constant measure of the confidence the investing community has in fiat currencies. So longer term, it can only go up as this confidence as well as these currencies'value erode as time goes by. In that sense, gold is linked to long term monetary inflation.



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 1:30:23 PM
From: painterx  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50101
 
Point/Counter-point

Hi folks,

I haven't posted on SI in years, usually I lurk and read other people's input. But today's message from SOTB has caused me to come from lurking and step up a minute to make some observations.

1) While Slider has a history of an over-developed sense of self-importance, this was mitigated (to some extent) by the quality of his analysis. But IMO, today's post steps it up a notch from hyper-ego to hubris. As one person noted, this is truly rubbing salt into the wounds of others. It passes quickly from feigned concern into full bore schadenfreude. Today's post is almost religious in nature, in that others were punished for simply not following his divine words of wisdom. This is what happens when one is truly full of themselves (see: Lord Acton's axiom). Systems work until they don't and one day his won't and like Ebenezer Scrooge at his own funeral, I doubt if many will be left to commiserate with Slider when that day comes.

2) Slider, in his analysis reminds me of free marketeers in that all socioeconomic and financial planetary dynamics, revolve about the solar marketplace, they don't. Part of the economic is the social and here it is where we see the error that comes with the limited view offered in wearing market based blinders in one's analysis.

True enough, the money supply did grow during the time frame he placed in question. So, under classical economics (if not all schools of economics) the currency was being debased and it should have shown itself with price inflation. Well, in one extent it did, and that was the Tech and equity bubble during that time. Inflation, does not need to show itself in the price of consumer staples and commodities, to be price inflation. Followed soon thereafter by the housing bubble. Yes? No? Maybe so?

But let's step beyond the economic and look into the social framework to see what was at work to hide currency debasement from consumer staples and commodities. For the uninitiated, I introduce you to Joseph Tainter:

en.wikipedia.org

snippet:

"According to Tainter, societies become more complex as they try to solve problems. Social complexity can include differentiated social and economic roles, reliance on symbolic and abstract communication, and the existence of a class of information producers and analysts who are not involved in primary resource production. Such complexity requires a substantial "energy" subsidy (meaning resources, or other forms of wealth). When a society confronts a "problem," such as a shortage of or difficulty in gaining access to energy, it tends to create new layers of bureaucracy, infrastructure, or social class to address the challenge.
For example, as Roman agricultural output slowly declined and population increased, per-capita energy availability dropped. The Romans "solved" this problem by conquering their neighbours to appropriate their energy surpluses (metals, grain, slaves, etc). However, as the Empire grew, the cost of maintaining communications, garrisons, civil government, etc. grew with it. Eventually, this cost grew so great that any new challenges such as invasions and crop failures could not be solved by the acquisition of more territory. At that point, the empire fragmented into smaller units.

We often assume that the collapse of the Roman Empire was a catastrophe for everyone involved. Tainter points out that it can be seen as a very rational preference of individuals at the time, many of whom were actually better off (all but the elite, presumably). Archaeological evidence from human bones indicates that average nutrition actually improved after the collapse in many parts of the former Roman Empire. Average individuals may have benefited because they no longer had to invest in the burdensome complexity of empire.

In Tainter's view, while invasions, crop failures, disease or environmental degradation may be the apparent causes of societal collapse, the ultimate cause is diminishing returns on investments in social complexity (in contrast, Jared Diamond's 2004 book, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, focuses on environmental mismanagement as a cause of collapse). Finally, Tainter musters modern statistics to show that marginal returns on investments in energy, education and technological innovation are diminishing today. The globalised modern world is subject to many of the same stresses that brought older societies to ruin.

However, Tainter is not entirely apocalyptic: "When some new input to an economic system is brought on line, whether a technical innovation or an energy subsidy, it will often have the potential at least temporarily to raise marginal productivity" (p. 124). Thus, barring continual conquest of your neighbors (which is always subject to diminishing returns), innovation that increases productivity is -- in the long run -- the only way out of the dismal science dilemma of declining marginal returns on added investments in complexity."

I submit, that it is difficult not to give Tainter his due and to say his theory is quite applicable to western nation's today, particularly to the United States. So for the sake of argument, let's say what Tainter observed and diagnosed is correct and that currently this dynamic is not only at work but has been with the US for the past two to three decades. What then staved off collapse of the social and economic structure as consumption has now exceeded productive output? Pay attention to the last paragraph above (again):

"However, Tainter is not entirely apocalyptic: "When some new input to an economic system is brought on line, whether a technical innovation or an energy subsidy, it will often have the potential at least temporarily to raise marginal productivity" (p. 124). Thus, barring continual conquest of your neighbors (which is always subject to diminishing returns), innovation that increases productivity is -- in the long run -- the only way out of the dismal science dilemma of declining marginal returns on added investments in complexity."

So during the time frame in question, what happened? Indeed, as Tainter observed, a new input to an economic system was brought on line, with both technical innovation and energy subsidies. During the time frame in question, commodities ended a secular bull market and began a secular bear market, reducing energy cost, this freed up money in the economy for further consumer consumption as the US economy went from being manufacturing driven to being service and consumer driven. Additionally, the oft noted cost reduction of technological efficiencies grew the fastest in history as the information age became ubiquitous and expanded from niche subcultures (corporate and governmental mainframes) into every day lives. This greatly helped to facilitate inventory efficiencies as well, as the concept of "just in time inventory" became not only the mainstay of commerce, but for households as well. These efficiencies also freed up capital and increased the strength of the burgeoning service and consumer based economy. I submit, these efficiencies have now been fully digested and that inflationary pressures can't be hidden as they once were from commodity and consumer staple prices. Of course I haven't even touched on the exportation of manufacturing to those nation's with lower wages, which also helped to mitigate modern inflationary indicators, through wage deflation. But that would be Phillips' curve nonsense to the and we don't need to go there.

All these dynamics, played a role in hiding the currency debasement which was taking place from the eighties into the twenty-first century. We may yet see other forces come into play that perform the same role of staving off socioeconomic collapse (as per Tainter), especially in the energy sector (workable cold fusion as an example), but who sees any such development on the horizon? I sure don't.

3) Finally, the most disturbing aspect of Slider's message, is the implied logical conclusion, that socialism/fascism can work. Economies and societies can be politically managed along with monetary policy. That political rulers, be they tyrants or democratically elected to office, can play social engineer and decide with near perfection the shape of a nation and then pay no price for their folly, excesses and (in some cases) moral depravity (as in unjust wars). No, in Slider's world, it's all good. There exist no alternative, only obedience is excepted, for the system will never fail. For if there is no punishment to be extracted for the decades of (what I find to be) mismanagement, abuse and avarice, then what's the point? Why do we bother? Just submit to the governmental Borg, invest in treasuries and sleep well knowing that the ruling elite can never fail.



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 3:28:56 PM
From: NOW  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50101
 
yeah but what are you serving for the main course?



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 5:49:49 PM
From: paul ross  Respond to of 50101
 
One small point, I don't think you can use M2 and M3 interchangeably, though M3 contains M2 and closely correlates over the years, there are possibly movements in "currency" during deflationary times where M2 would show a larger decrease than is actually happening in overall money supply... for ex.time deposits being shifted into checking accounts or other monetary machinations...



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 6:44:24 PM
From: roguedolphin  Respond to of 50101
 
SINCLAIR: In The News
by Jim Sinclair
August 25, 2008
siliconinvestor.com

Dear Friends,

Part of my attempt to serve is to be barraged with every opinion from every chat site and blog that presents arguments against gold.

The most popular one now starts off sounding reasonable. It states that crude will trade down between $110 and $85, making inflationary expectations fall and as a result the trade deficit will decline making the dollar rise and therefore commodities fall. This will raise consumer expectations that will then increase spending, making the dollar rise.

The following is missing:

1) Deflation is assumed here to mean the falling cost of living. Deflation is the failure of debt. That looks toward the OTC derivative meltdown and the ongoing collapses occurring now in financial entities that require liquidity increases through rescues that use public money. Increased liquidity results in an increased cost of living regardless of economic conditions. That is an economic axiom.
2) The assumption many have that Gold is not a currency speaks to their eyesight and poor memory. It stares you in the face every day if you look.
3) The US is the MAJOR manufacturer and exporter of OTC derivatives. Should any side of the specific performance contract fail, the failure potential of the counter party is extremely high. That is quite dollar negative.
4) There is a desire worldwide for central bank diversification out of the US dollar, which is unlikely to change.
5)Central banks have already indicated they will cease buying US agencies, which is TIC negative and therefore dollar negative.
6) There is no consideration of an explosion in the Federal Budget deficit that will eclipse any improvement in the US Trade deficit that is always looked at in comparison to TIC. It is certain to drop faster that the trade deficit drops, therefore making the Trade Deficit drop meaningless.
7) This coming and present crisis is from a lockup of the credit system that is emerging from the meltdown of OTC derivatives. Consumers hold too much debt and are on the ropes. You would first need one hell of a recovery in housing to reinstate home equity and a major unlock of the credit market before consumers see any light at the end of their bankruptcy tunnel. Consumers being gleeful in this crisis at any point are simply NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
8) Consumers picking up the dollar is an interesting view because internal consumer glee means nothing to foreign exchange except as it impacts expectations of a US recovery in the middle of what the writer says will be the Great Greater Depression. That scenario defies logic.
9)In the same argument the writer says the US economy slows, so where does the gleeful consumer fit in? The answer to that question is they don’t
10) The writer feels the Trade Balance stands alone and will, by contraction, move the dollar. The trade deficit, whether or not covered by the TIC report, is what the Trade Balance is all about.
11) This argument has, along with the totally non-existent yet still popular “Synthetic Dollar Short,” many of you angry with me. That is ok and deserved, as you are as good as your last call, but the arguments you now base that on are totally wrong in both instances.
12) The Bush Administration will do what they did the last time the "D" word was used as recorded below. That was totally dollar negative long term. Should Obama win, his administration would invent social approaches to money and business that the Bush and Roosevelt administration never heard of. These approaches will without any doubt be long-term dollar negative.

How about a Chicken and $100,000 in every pot?
jsmineset.com



To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 9:22:16 PM
From: dvdw©  Respond to of 50101
 
You should give credit to Ahhaha who delivered this information to your thread in real time....in fact he was the only person on SI who understood what actually happened. Now everyone is on to the understanding.....go back 7 days from these posts and forward....good stuff. PS not a negative towards you, you've proven yourself as a man of honor.
To: gladman who wrote (10854) 3/20/2008 3:13:34 PM
From: ahhaha of 11430

What have I been saying for a long time? FED has to make money dear. Today I wrote on the res RE crash thread:

To: Steve_C who wrote (111843) 3/20/2008 1:32:18 PM
From: ahhaha of 111879

Thank you.

Free market capitalism is terribly fair. Few can see this especially not rich people, academics, FED. They all think human intellect can engineer a better outcome.

FED, the apotheosis of the better way, engineered the current disaster by running a negative real cost of funds for 3 years. They did this to achieve the fair goal of eternal prosperity. The result was cheap money found its way out the back door, around town, and ended up enabling the bidding up of no risk RE prices. Almost everyone considered this outcome eminently fair since most of them owned houses. Now it is looked upon as eminently unfair.

If a free market in money had been operating instead of FED's fixed price pretense, cheap money would never have been available to fuel the excesses. No one wants that kind of fairness because each thinks it stops an individual from getting ahead by subjecting everyone to financial discipline.

Funny thing about financial discipline that comes from the terribleness of free markets. You don't make money but you get wealthier over time. Contrast that with what I see around my upper middle class neighborhood. Everyone has lots of money but they're all poor, and they don't want free market capitalism. They'd prefer to continue to pay the protection money, the protection that keeps things unfair, so that they can get ahead.

When FED started selling Permament, it has the effect of draining reserves in the banking system. Normally this tightens credit. In our current environment that's what we need to break the tangible rational expectations for inflation. Breaking that, breaking the MECHANISM, is more important than bailing out the banking system from RE related illiquid states. For, if FED fails to break rational expectations for inflation, they'll lose control, and then the entire banking system will implode. FED has to preclude that, not because of some altruistic dedication to Dual Mandate, but to save themselves. They won't be able to do good, no more.

In our current situation there's too much liquidity in some sectors, and not enough in others. The TAF, TSF, are addressing the dearths associated with RE loans. What's dealing with the excesses? FED Permanent sales. It's permanent. FED is going to bust the MECHANISM into pieces to bring back or restore confidence that they can address the other side, the important side, of Dual Mandate, the low inflation side. You eliminate inflation by making money scarce and that makes it dear.

Why is that bullish? The stock market has been dropping not because of RE loan disposition, but because if loan disposition causes FED to pump up inflation, no one has any business holding stocks. It does not matter if it is true or not. (Rich Evans Doctrine). I and all other financial pros including the main fund managers believe that inflation is total anathema, so we must sell in anticipation of it. When FED starts draining liquidity which historically is bad for stocks it kills the will to inflate. The US has almost zero propensity to inflate, if we are talking about wage driven inflation, the only true dynamic kind, but if we are talking about monetary inflation, say put in place by FED by running a negative real fed funds rate on a sustained basis, or pumping for superficialities like y2k, or Asian Crisis, or S&L Crisis, et al, the US has extremely high propensity to inflate. The stock market has plunged concurrently with FED bail out. You've heard me wail that they needed to raise fed fund rate. Equivalently, they can drain reserves. I didn't suggest that because they haven't done a drain in eons. It means they mean business about busting the MECHANISM, and that means integrity will be restored to money and the system. In light of this the stock market is way undervalued.
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To: ahhaha who wrote (10853) 3/20/2008 5:16:26 PM
From: CapitalistHogg™ of 11430

the maintenance margin changes to which I was referring will be applied to commodity and derivative markets.

well they raised the margins on everything i was holding.

ICE Raises Sugar, Coffee, Cocoa Margins, Effective Mar 17
72 hours, 37 minutes ago
ICE Futures U.S. said Monday that clearing-member, original-margin requirements for its sugar, coffee and cocoa markets are increased, effective with the close of business on Monday.

New margin requirements, in dollars, are as follows:

-By Susan Buchanan, Dow Jones Newswires; 504-371-5461; susan.buchanan@dowjones.com

The easy money fueled speculative boom is over.

i hope not. i just bought into the whole idea that agricultural inflation was just getting started. in fact, i'm sold on the idea that it is a macro economic play. not that it will matter much after this pullback bankrupts my trading account.
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To: ahhaha who wrote (10855) 3/20/2008 6:22:07 PM
From: gladman of 11430

Awesome, thanks.
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To: CapitalistHogg™ who wrote (10856) 3/20/2008 8:47:46 PM
From: ahhaha of 11430

well they raised the margins on everything i was holding.

I made the claim based on my experience with these matters. Nowadays things move so quickly that it isn't possible even for me to stay abreast of everything.

ICE Raises Sugar,

They did this because various ones were going up the limit. The exchanges had to get the intense public speculation under control. My remark is associated with changes that will be applied later after the markets cool off. Usually, unless you have force majeure exchanges will raise margins to cool chaotic markets and then change them back.

original-margin requirements for its sugar, coffee and cocoa markets are increased, effective with the close of business on Monday.

Wow, original or initial margin requirements. I only mentioned maintenance. It's all moot now.

The easy money fueled speculative boom is over.

i hope not.

You had better heed what I'm telling you. FED isn't merely doing matched sales of Temporary, a fairly strong monetary move. Considering they rarely do that but usually only back off on the rate of add, matched sales would be tough to swallow. Instead, they're selling Permanent. I CAN'T RECALL THE LAST TIME THEY DID THAT, and I am preeminent in understanding how FED works. You are damn lucky to have the best in the world talking to you. What you would call the best can't even understand me.

i just bought into the whole idea that agricultural inflation was just getting started.

Without cheap money it can't go anywhere. Money is only cheap to certain financial institutions who need it to repair balance sheets or to manage shaky loans. It's very difficult to get money to speculate in commodities. In the past there were various avenues where money could flow on an effective fed funds rate commensurate cost, but the banks have ended those flows. What rate is effective if some biggee wants to speculate? I told you previously, anywhere between 6 - 20%. In that range you can forget it unless the game is on where commodities are limit up almost daily. Such up markets enable sales of positions underneath taken earlier to finance new positions, thereby making the pyramid self financing. As soon as the game is broken, the MECHANISM is busted, the pyramid collapses, and everyone must sell all positions no matter how deeply held.

in fact, i'm sold on the idea that it is a macro economic play.

Playing commodities with fundamentals? You're DOA, that is, if you arrive. YOU MUST TRADE commodities, in and out. You can't hold them. That's the first law of commodity involvement unless you use them to hedge physical commodities. Then you must hold the hedge to term. The complement of such holding which has positive expected return, is necessarily negative especially under the expectation of commensurately holding. If you have a conviction about a commodity, go buy the physical. At least then you have something left when the game ends.

not that it will matter much after this pullback bankrupts my trading account.

It may not be a pullback. Price is double what it takes to encourage supply to any degree of imaginable demand. You just don't appreciate what I've been preaching about how FED distorts the effects of money at the obscure margin which provides the wherewithal to drive markets wild. Consider houses. Are they a better bet than commodities?

This is what you can do. I don't know what you're playing so a blanket comment can't be of much value. In general, you must sell immediately. I'd say 20 - 25% more on the downside in grains until some kind of consolidation, 10% in metals and energy. You can't assume a contra trend bounce. This isn't the stock market, and FED MUST bust in early May, orders from the DA. They can't reverse in their resolve. The only question is, do my estimates above reflect the degree of involvement of illiquid hedge funds now almost in panic?
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To: ahhaha who wrote (10847) 3/21/2008 10:39:21 AM
From: DMaA of 11430

I am confused. I see that

A coupon pass is a purchase of Treasury notes or bonds by the Fed from dealers.

thestreet.com

You talk about coupon passes and that the fed is SELLING permanent. There seems to be a contradiction in terms. Is the Fed REDUCING the money supply by SELLING bills or INCREASING the money supply by BUYING bills? Could you please clear this up for me?
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To: DMaA who wrote (10859) 3/21/2008 10:57:51 AM
From: DMaA of 11430

It appears to me that the Fed has reduced the money supply by about $70 bln. Is this correct?

newyorkfed.org
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To: ahhaha who wrote (10845) 3/21/2008 12:08:36 PM
From: YourNameHere of 11430

The justification was that individuals usually put more money in investments when economy is good, but they put their money into savings accounts when it turns bad.

Problem was that banks clearly didn't understand and honor this sentiment. If I want out of risk and into safety, I don't want the vehicle I've used for cash savings to go chasing yield in ever more risky adventures leveraged up the whazoo. If I want to go to Vegas, I'll buy a plane ticket.
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To: SliderOnTheBlack who wrote (11292)8/26/2008 10:57:58 PM
From: 8bits  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50101
 
Feeling Betrayed...?

No, most analysts talk their own book. Sometimes that book is in alignment with market forces, sometimes not. Caveat Emptor.
As with any position, one should not be married to ones stock, precious metals, or now unfortunately in the modern era, your house.

As for cheerleaders it should be pointed out that Jon Nadler who has a daily column on Kitco has been bearish/cautious on gold for at least 6 months.

kitco.com

Something to note also is that M2 has turned back up:

research.stlouisfed.org[1][id]=M2&s[1]=ch1

A very wise, and now retired gold dealer, Burt Blumert, who used to be in business with Ron Paul, described precious metals as being insurance. It's important to own but basically he advocated not making it your entire portfolio.

Sorry to hear you've been getting nasty emails and PMs. I don't always agree with you (but sometimes I do..) but I don't understand why people have to talk out their loses or angst against someone on the internet. (Unless you are secretly Ben Bernanke or Hank Paulson)