SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Gold/Mining/Energy : Gold and Silver Juniors, Mid-tiers and Producers -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Claude Cormier who wrote (60958)8/30/2008 8:01:18 PM
From: Proud Deplorable  Respond to of 78421
 
You plainly can't read Claude

You said "In fact, Micon International Ltd. and P&E Mining Consultants Inc., have done that exactly. According to them there is no material change in the total tonnage and grade."

According to them they do not "ANTICIPATE the currently completed drilling will result in a significant material change in the tonnage"

"While an updated resource estimate is underway by Micon International Ltd.
and P&E Mining Consultants Inc.,
these same consultants anticipate that very little of the
existing Inferred Mineral Resource will be upgraded to the Indicated category by using the
currently completed drilling. Our consultants have also advised us that they do not
anticipate the currently completed drilling will result in a significant material change in the
tonnage or grade of the mineral resources at the deposit."
As of Aurelian’s press release dated October 4, 2007, calculations at the FDN deposit returned
an initial Inferred Mineral Resource of 58.9 million tonnes grading 7.23 g/t of gold and 11.8 g/t
of silver for 13.7 million ounces of contained gold and 22.4 million ounces of contained silver,
determined at a cut off grade of 2.3 g/t gold-equivalent (Report titled “A Mineral Resource
Estimate for the Fruta del Norte Deposit, Cordillera del Condor Project, Zamora-Chinchipe
Province, Ecuador” and dated November 15, 2007 filed on www.sedar.com). The results
reported in today’s release were not included in that calculation. "


again

The results
reported in today’s release were not included in that calculation. "


The results
reported in today’s release were not included in that calculation. "


And you are now IGNORING the new cutoff grades and increased mineable resource due to open pit mining now being allowed. Why are you ignoring this plus the FACT that many of the drill holes bottomed in rich mineralization plainly indicating more gold deeper? You are also ignoring the blue sky potential of the project. Why are you doing this? That's not something you usually do in your reports and you will probably ignore this question as well. I say they have 20 million ounces of GOLD at least, not just 22,000,000 ounces of gold EQUIVALENT as it now stands.

This is yet another reason why these CROOKS are rushing this deal through just days before the new mining law is due to be announced proving as Kinross already knows that there is no political threat. Any reputable company would wait until the law comes out before making a move like this...what are they hiding Claude?



To: Claude Cormier who wrote (60958)8/30/2008 8:37:55 PM
From: Proud Deplorable  Respond to of 78421
 
***Here is why people should NOT invest in Canada.....The OSC is extremely corrupt! Claude...what do you say? You recommend junior stocks on the corrupt Canadian Exchanges. You must have an opinion about the OSC? From the current ARU scandal all can now plainly see that a public company can now be stolen by insiders conspiring to defraud minority shareholders.
------------

Why Ontario Securities Commission rarely gets their man .

Why the OSC so rarely gets its man



More than 450 employees work at the Ontario Securities Commission.

About 40% are paid more than $100,000 a year.

Their dismal track record begs the question: What on earth are they doing?
Dec 01, 2007 04:30 AM

Tyler Hamilton

Business Reporter

Bruce McLaughlin took millions of dollars from the company he led to pay off personal debts. That was the conclusion of a court-appointed accounting firm that looked into suspicious transactions at Mississauga property developer Mascan Corp.

The findings of the audit pressured the Ontario Securities Commission to take legal action on behalf of Mascan’s minority shareholders.

That was 23 years ago.

The case is still on the OSC’s books, listed on the commission’s website under “Current Proceedings.”
The OSC says it can’t comment because it’s a “live matter” before the courts.

“Most of the former plaintiffs have died or lost interest,” says Edward Waitzer, the lawyer who first pursued McLaughlin back in 1982 — at the time representing the Thomson family’s Woodbridge Co. Ltd. — until a reluctant OSC waded into the case. The RCMP wanted no part of it, he says.

Waitzer eventually became OSC chair between 1993 and 1996 and even he couldn’t get the case moving.

“It’s an example of how things get initiated and never get completed, and nobody holds the OSC to account,” he says.

The OSC is Ontario’s investment watchdog. It has ultimate authority over the Toronto Stock Exchange, pension funds, mutual funds and investment dealers. Across Canada, everyone from the tiniest investor to online day traders and retirees on a company pension is affected by transactions — right or wrong — under its jurisdiction.

It’s accountable by definition. But academics, lawyers and forensic accountants interviewed for this story say accountability is sorely lacking when it comes to securities enforcement, whether it’s regulatory matters overseen by the OSC or violations of criminal law overseen by police.

They also cite a lack of focus, and the sense of urgency that makes enforcement an effective deterrent to breaking the rules. The decades-old Mascan case, they say, illustrates much of what’s wrong with the system.

More recently, many believe the OSC and Canadian authorities dropped the ball on their investigation of Conrad Black, who will be sentenced later this month in Chicago after a speedy U.S. trial.

“For me, the hardest part about the Conrad Black trial has been explaining why it happened in Chicago and not in Toronto,” former Ontario premier Bob Rae wrote recently in his blog.

All this is no surprise to Utpal Bhattacharya, a finance professor at the Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business and author of a report comparing the enforcement records of the OSC and the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). “We found the enforcement in Ontario was pathetic,” said Bhattacharya. “Canada is a first-world country with second-world capital markets and third-world enforcement.”

Many high-profile cases of stock-market meltdown or corporate fraud in recent years have left investors fuming that authorities have either failed to hold people accountable or taken way too long to apply justice.

“I think delay is a big source of frustration for investors,” said Poonam Puri, a law professor who teaches about white-collar crime at Osgoode Hall Law School.

This year, for example, many Canadians were frustrated that, after a decade of investigation and courtroom battles over Bre-X Minerals, nobody was held accountable for the world-infamous multi-billion-dollar gold fraud. Many other cases have left Canadians scratching their heads, such as the 1990s meltdown of theatre-producer Livent Inc., the accounting fiasco of Nortel Networks, or the OSC’s failure to pin stock-tipping charges on investment banker Andrew Rankin.

Critics say the OSC showed its light touch in the YBM Magnex stock-market scandal a few years ago. Despite FBI investigations linking YBM Magnex to the Russian Mob, the OSC in 2003 ruled “this case isn’t about organized crime,” and set light fines and penalties against a few company directors.

And investor advocates were shocked when in 2002 the holding company of Michael Cowpland, founder and then CEO of Corel Corp., was fined only $1 million to settle allegations that he sold $20.4 million worth of Corel stock in advance of bad earnings news that caused the company’s share price to drop 40 per cent.

The RCMP says the scope of fraudulent activity across Canada is unknown because there’s no “systematic” collection of data. But for certain crimes — such as insider trading — there’s plenty of reason for worry.

According to a Bloomberg News study prepared by Port Hope-based Measuredmarkets Inc., 33 of 52 large Canadian mergers last year showed signs of aberrant trading just before the mergers were publicly announced. That’s a rate of 63 per cent. A comparative study in the U.S. found a rate of 41 per cent.

The findings don’t prove illegal insider trading is widespread, says Measuredmarkets’ Christopher Thomas, but “it raises a red flag.”

And there are enough of these red flags to spark a growing call for change, increasingly from high-profile voices. Claude Lamoureux, just-retired chief executive officer of the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan — one of the biggest in Canada — accused regulators last month of “pretending to oversee” securities rules and lambasted authorities for their light-handed treatment of white-collar crime.

Barbara Stymiest, chief operating officer at Royal Bank of Canada and former CEO of the Toronto Stock Exchange, called Canada’s securities enforcement an “international embarrassment.”

So what’s the problem?

Industry watchers point fingers everywhere:

* Lax regulations and laws

* A leadership vacuum

* A defeatist culture

* A system short on accountability and focus

* Fragmentation among provincial and territorial regulators. More than 30 separate agencies — many of them self-regulating — are involved in Canadian securities regulation.

“This could charitably be called the Canadian enforcement mosaic,” OSC chair David Wilson told a gathering this month.

* A revolving door of investigators and prosecutors, causing delays and gaps in case knowledge.

* An overarching perception among lawyers, judges and politicians that white-collar offences are victimless crimes, lacking the blood, violence and abuse that captures headlines.

It’s a long list, but south of the border there are fewer excuses and more action. Adjusted to reflect the market size in each jurisdiction, the Indiana University report revealed that between 1995 and 2005, the SEC prosecuted 10 times more cases and, in the specific area of insider trading violations, 20 times more cases than the OSC.

As for financial penalties, “the SEC fines for insider trading per case are about 17 times more than the OSC fines,” concluded the study, prepared last year for the Task Force To Modernize Securities Regulation in Canada.

Surprisingly, the SEC doesn’t appear to have a leg up when it comes to resources, according to Howell Jackson, a professor who teaches securities regulation at Harvard Law School. In a recent comparison of Canadian and U.S. regulatory activity, he found a well-funded Canadian system.

“Adjusted for most measures of economic scale — population, GDP, or market capitalization — Canadian budgets and staffing may actually be somewhat more intensive than those in the United States,” discovered Howell. “Indeed, by international levels, total Canadian staffing and budgets seems to be on the high end.”

Both the Ontario Securities Commission and the RCMP have seen their budgets increased in recent years. The OSC staffing budget jumped 28 per cent in three years, to $51.51 million in fiscal 2007 from $40.15 million in fiscal 2004. About 40 per cent of the regulator’s 464 employees make over $100,000, including $524,065 paid to the chair, Wilson.

Meanwhile, the RCMP launched its highly touted Integrated Market Enforcement Team in 2003, backed by $120 million in new federal support. But so far it has been mostly tough talk and little action, a criticism IMET director John Sliter called “well founded” in an interview with the Star.

The OSC, however, is not so willing to accept the blame. Commission vice-chair Lawrence Ritchie points out that regulatory enforcement ends once the evidence gathered by investigators is put before the court.

“What the court does with it, any regulator has absolutely no control over how a judge or jury will treat that,” he says. “I’m not saying the focus or criticism should be laid elsewhere, but it should be seen within the proper context.”

Others say the blame also lies with police. They emphasize the often forgotten distinction between breaches of regulation and violations of the Criminal Code. Douglas Hyndman, chair of the B.C. Securities Commission, says regulators are criticized for weak enforcement of cases that criminal authorities should be pursuing, but don’t.

“I just don’t think our criminal investigation authorities strike fear into the hearts of crooks in the industry,” Hyndman says. They point out that most of the high-profile U.S. cases — WorldCom, Enron, Adelphia — were the result of criminal, not regulatory, enforcement. Like in the U.S., regulators in Canada can refer serious cases of securities fraud to criminal authorities — the RCMP’s commercial crimes unit or IMET — but there’s no guarantee they’ll be taken on.

The Investment Dealers Association and the Mutual Fund Dealers Association, two self-regulatory bodies accountable to the OSC in Ontario that can refer cases to IMET, have identified at least 84 cases of suspected fraud, forgery or misappropriation of funds to police, according to an association spokesperson.

It’s unclear how many of these cases have been investigated, as IMET resists disclosing names of those being probed until charges have been formally laid.

Cases not pursued by criminal authorities can easily slip through the cracks, though in some cases wrongdoers will get a regulatory wrist slap for criminal offences more deserving of jail time.

Hyndman says regulators shouldn’t be forced to use their own limited resources to prosecute allegations that are clearly criminal in nature.

In the case of Bre-X’s John Felderhof, accused of insider trading, many felt the RCMP should have laid fraud charges and pursued a federal conviction. Instead, the OSC was forced to go after Felderhof with weaker quasi-criminal charges of insider trading in an Ontario provincial court, a forum typically reserved for cases like drunk driving and breaking and entering.

The case dragged on for years, arguably diverting the OSC’s resources away from its core duties of enforcing regulation. But investor advocates like Ken Kivenko argue nothing justifies the kind of delay both accused individuals and shareholders have faced over the years, whether it’s two decades in the case of Bruce McLaughlin, six years after signs of crooked accounting appeared at Nortel, or 10 years for the Bre-X case to conclude.

“The whole system is not set up to protect investors,” says Kivenko, a former aerospace executive who wants to see major securities reforms. “If you did a cost-benefit economic model, Canada would be the place to go for white-collar crime. Your chance of detection is small and the consequences for getting caught are not high.”

Ontario’s new attorney general, Chris Bentley, says a lot has been done over the past few years to improve enforcement of securities crimes, including a doubling of OSC enforcement staff and new offences in the Criminal Code, but he acknowledges more must be done.

“There’s no stepping back. No taking a rest. We continue to push on this front, take it very seriously, and I’ll continue to look for ways to strengthen investigation and prosecutorial capacity,” says Bentley. “The best way to protect those who use securities markets is by action, not words ..... By all means, judge me by my actions.”

Waitzer, benefiting from 30 years of hindsight, has little sympathy for any more excuses. “The regulators are becoming like the people they’re trying to regulate,” he says. “They’re spending their time managing reputations instead of getting results. There’s not a lot of accountability. They can talk a big game, and the fact is they don’t deliver.”

OSC's mandate: protect investors

The Ontario Securities Commission's job is to protect investors from practices considered unfair, improper or fraudulent under the Securities Act.

It regulates investment advisers and companies that trade in securities. It has oversight over the Toronto Stock Exchange and a number of self-regulatory organizations composed of mutual fund and investment dealers.

Why it matters

Securities crimes affect most Canadians. If you've bought shares in a publicly traded company, either directly or indirectly through holdings in mutual funds and pension funds, any fraud hurting that company's performance or affecting its share value can leave the honest investor holding the bag.

Insider trading, stock manipulation, accounting fraud and the illegal sale of shares are among the crimes that regulators and law-enforcement agencies track. For certain crimes, white-collar crooks prey more often on seniors and other vulnerable members of society.

In one way or another, widespread securities fraud left unchecked can lead to a breakdown in market confidence, discouraging investment in the Canadian economy that might otherwise lead to job creation.

Outside our borders, international investors are known to apply a "Canadian discount" on equities here to account for lax enforcement. Indeed, in many financial circles, Canada is considered an "enforcement-free zone" where people don't just get away with white-collar crime, they profit dearly from it.



To: Claude Cormier who wrote (60958)8/30/2008 8:52:21 PM
From: Proud Deplorable  Respond to of 78421
 
The RCMP says the scope of fraudulent activity across Canada is unknown because there’s no “systematic” collection of data. But for certain crimes — such as insider trading — there’s plenty of reason for worry.

..............

"Why it matters

Securities crimes affect most Canadians. If you've bought shares in a publicly traded company, either directly or indirectly through holdings in mutual funds and pension funds, any fraud hurting that company's performance or affecting its share value can leave the honest investor holding the bag.

Insider trading, stock manipulation, accounting fraud and the illegal sale of shares are among the crimes that regulators and law-enforcement agencies track. For certain crimes, white-collar crooks prey more often on seniors and other vulnerable members of society.

In one way or another, widespread securities fraud left unchecked can lead to a breakdown in market confidence, discouraging investment in the Canadian economy that might otherwise lead to job creation.

Outside our borders, international investors are known to apply a "Canadian discount" on equities here to account for lax enforcement. Indeed, in many financial circles, Canada is considered an "enforcement-free zone" where people don't just get away with white-collar crime, they profit dearly from it."



To: Claude Cormier who wrote (60958)8/31/2008 4:19:14 PM
From: Proud Deplorable  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 78421
 
43-101 & Insitu Valuations

Posted by: Fearless on August 31, 2008 02:34PM

I can understand how an investor, who has no real experience in mining and whom must rely soley on definitions provided by CIM, could not understand how it would be possible for ARU to receive simular insitu gold valuations as that of meridain.

Rather than me trying to convay 20 years of mining experience in one post, justify why ARU should receive a 300+ insitu gold price on any serious takeover.Which would be a waste of my time because it would be highly technical and most of the readers here would not understand a fraction of what I am talking about.

I will instead, draw attention to the variuos 43-101 definitions of catagories in the defining of what a resource and a reserve is.

43-101 was brought into effect after the BreX scandal, in order to bring some regulation to companies in the reporting of there mineral reserves. It more importantly made that qualified person reporting such estimates, accountable for there accuracy.

If you will note, from the definitions, so thoughtfully supplied by a fellow poster that there is a lot of leeway given to the qualified reporting person in the first 3 catagories of resource.

The real distinction comes when claiming resource estimates as actual reserves in the proven or probable catagory. This is because a feasability study must be conducted first in order to claim such.

In effect, it depends greatly on the reporting geologists opinion and his relevant experience, whether or not the mineral deposit that a company has discover is placed in the Inferred, Indicated or Measured catagories of resource.

What one geologist may classify from his experience in the Measured Resouce Catagory based on 10 DD holes, another geologist may classify only in the Inferred catagory and feel you need 100 DD holes to justify Measured Resource status.

Unfortunately for us there is no accountability for ever being too concervative in one estimates hahahahahaha.

Taking the information that we have however from ARU's latest press release and the CIM definitions. Lets determine for ourselves what actual catagory ARU's ounces could be placed in. I have placed in bold the significant wording in each catagory.

Inferred Mineral Resource that part of a mineral resource for which quantity and grade or quality can be estimated on the basis of geological evidence and limited sampling and reasonably assumed, but not verified, geological and grade continuity. The estimate is based on limited information and sampling from locations such as out crops, trenches, pits, workings and drill holes. Due to the uncertainty that may be attached to inferred Mineral resources, it cannot be assumed that all or any part of an inferred mineral resource will be upgraded to an indicated or measured resource as a result of continued exploration.
Comparing the above CIM definition with statement made in the latest ARU press release we seem to have a misunderstanding in how to evaluate the mineral stages of a project.
For instance, these statement in the latest ARU press release
(“The new drill results confirm the continuity of geology and grade in the central part of FDN,” said Patrick F.N. Anderson, President and CEO. “ Our consultants have also advised us that they do not anticipate the currently completed drilling will result in a significant material change in the tonnage or grade of the mineral resources at the deposit." ) seem in my opinion, when compared to the above Infererred definition, to argue strongly for an increase in catagory.
Indicated Mineral Resource is that part of a Mineral Resource for which quantity, grade or quality, densities, shape and physical characteristics, can be estimated with a level of confidence sufficient to allow the appropriate application of technical and economic parameters, to support mine planning and evaluation of the economic viability of the deposit. The estimate is based on detailed and reliable exploration and testing information gathered through appropriate techniques from locations such as outcrops, trenches, pits, workings and drill holes that are spaced closely enough for geological and grade continuity to be reasonably assumed. Mineralization may be classified as an Indicated Mineral Resource by the Qualified Person when the nature, quality, quantity and distribution of data are such as to allow confident interpretation of the geological framework and to reasonably assume the continuity of mineralization.
It would seem in my opinion from the the above statements in the ARU press release that the portion of FDN's deposit drilled on a 50mX50m pattern. Should at least be included as an Indicated Resource. Lets further continue.
Measured Mineral Resource is that part of a Mineral Resource for which quantity, grade or quality, densities, shape, and physical characteristics are so well established that they can be estimated with confidence sufficient to allow the appropriate application of technical and economic parameters, to support production planning and evaluation of the economic viability of the deposit. The estimate is based on detailed and reliable exploration, sampling and testing information gathered through appropriate techniques from locations such as outcrops, trenches, pits, workings and drill holes that are spaced closely enough to confirm both geological and grade continuity. Mineralization or other natural material of economic interest may be classified as a Measured Mineral Resource by the Qualified Person when the nature, quality, quantity and distribution of data are such that the tonnage and grade of the mineralization can be estimated to within close limits and that variation from the estimate would not significantly affect potential economic viability. This category requires a high level of confidence in, and understanding of, the geology and controls of the mineral deposit.
Once again from the above statements made in the ARU press release including the following ("Inspection of drill cross sections allow the width of the mineralized envelope to be estimated visually.", "A review and comparison of the final QA/QC-approved intersections from the new 50m spaced drilling against the previous mineralized domain model has shown few surprises. It is anticipated that the new data will result in only modest changes to the mineralized envelope used to control the grade interpolation. It is not anticipated that the currently completed drilling will result in a significant material change in the tonnage or grade of the mineral resources at the deposit.”.
One could argue very strongly that in fact the portion of ARU drilled on a 50x50 m pattern could easily be included in the Measured Resource catagory.
In fact, one has to wonder why it has not been , since ARU used to have on its Web site initial Long hole production plan layouts and plans on mine developement. Which for some mysterious reason have been taken down hahahahahahaha.
Making up such plans, in conjuction with metalurgical recovery testing and drilling geotechnical holes for mine planning, along with hiring firms to do mine planning, would actually, only be warranted according to my interpretation of CIM definitions. If a company actually assumed that there was a high likely hood that a portion of there Inferred resource would be upgraded into the Indicated and Measured catagory's.
This goes directly against the CIM definition of an Inferred resource that states " it cannot be assumed that all or any part of an inferred mineral resource will be upgraded to an indicated or measured resource as a result of continued exploration. "
Perhaps, our management likes to waste shareholder capital, hiring consultants to do testing that according to CIM definitions and how they are classifying our deposit, can not be sure is warranted hahahahahahahaha.
Proven Mineral Reserve is the economically mineable part of a Measured Mineral Resource demonstrated by at least a Preliminary Feasibility Study. This Study must include adequate information on mining, processing, metallurgical, economic, and other relevant factors that demonstrate, at the time of reporting, that economic extraction is justified. Application of the Proven Mineral Reserve category implies that the Qualified Person has the highest degree of confidence in the estimate with the consequent expectation in the minds of the readers of the report. The term should be restricted to that part of the deposit where production planning is taking place and for which any variation in the estimate would not significantly affect potential economic viability. The CIM Definition Standards provide for a direct relationship between Indicated Mineral Resources and Probable Mineral Reserves and between Measured Mineral Resources and Proven Mineral Reserves. In other words, the level of geoscientific confidence for Probable Mineral Reserves is the same as that required for the in situ determination of Indicated Mineral Resources and for Proven Mineral Reserves is the same as that required for the in situ determination of Measured Mineral Resources.
Now, while we do not have all the imformation gathered, as far as I know, and according to CIM definitions, to classify the drilled of portion of FDN in one of the Reserve catagories. It can be argued, that from ARU's past news releases and former Web site material, that they were putting together the required information, such as mining, processing, and metalurical processes required for a preliminary feasibilty study.
In my opinion, looking at lengths of core that are world class not only in grade but also shear size.
The process of doing a feasibility study will not be to question if FDN will be profitable to mine, it will be done in order to determine just how hugely profitable it will be.
In conclusion, I just have to wonder why our management is being so concervative in its resource estimation catagory. Especially when there on the record comments and actions in my mind seem to contradict CIM definitions.
A suspicious mind, might start coming up with all kinds of conspiracy scenario's hahahahahahaha.
With the amount of work ARU has done and the quality of FDN deposit. In my opinion, the FDN deposit, not only warrants an in-situ valuation equal too but greater than that received by Meridian's.
Any other opinion on this in my view display's the posters lack of real mining knowledge.
Regards,
F.F.


====================

Claude.....I cannot tell you who this person is because of internet anonymity but good luck disputing him in fact I would offer you the opportunity to go over there and debate this issue of comparing Meridien to ARU. Will you accept this offer?
agoracom.com



To: Claude Cormier who wrote (60958)8/31/2008 4:56:08 PM
From: Proud Deplorable  Respond to of 78421
 
Claude....the Quebec mining community is quite small and everyone knows all the major players and so I was wondering if you have spoken at all with any of these individuals in the last 90 days?

Andre Gaumond,
Jonathan Rubenstein (Canico)
Bryan A. Coates (Osisko)