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Politics : Politics of Energy -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: RetiredNow who wrote (2269)	9/10/2008 1:12:44 PM
From: Hawkmoon	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 86356

Take a look at it from the Russian perspective for a second. I commend you!! That's quite a feat!! Personally, I doubt I can insert my head that far up my @ss.. ;0) We're supposed to see the "Russian perspective" as something that's legitimate? Imperialist conquest, forced annexations and marginalization of entire nationalities.. Desire for that "warm water port".. control of all oil from the Caspian to Europe? MM.. there's very little legitimacy in any such claim by the Russians. If they weren't bullying and beating up on all of their neighbors, they probably wouldn't have created such resentment. There's a damn good reason that many of these non-Russians HATE Moscow and you simply have no right to dismiss it and their soveriegn rights. And that's especially true of the Georgians, who were a nation/kingdom before Russia was even a glimmer in Ivan's eye. But that's not the whole story, that's all just the window dressing. Democracy and right to self-govern is just the righteous propaganda that both sides spew. Well.. I guess we understand your worldview now.. Sieg Heil!! We know that neither the Russians, nor the Chinese, believe in "self-rule", or democratic government. They never have and now, after a brief flirtation with democratic reform, they've returned to their old imperialist ways. Hawk

To: RetiredNow who wrote (2269)	9/10/2008 1:54:49 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 86356

Russia recognized Georgia's independence. The fact that Georgia used to be part of Russia isn't very relevant to the justice or "legality" of any claims (its relevant to the history of how the situation developed, and its relevant to the Russian's attitude, but beyond that it has little relevance). Georgia didn't recognize South Ossetia's independence. Even Russia didn't until AFTER the recent Russian invasion. And they would not have even had their semi-seperate state they had before the current crisis if it wasn't for earlier Russian intervention. But that's not the whole story, that's all just the window dressing. Democracy and right to self-govern is just the righteous propaganda that both sides spew Its not just propaganda, its certainly not the only concern, and arguably not the main one, but it isn't some bogus made up idea, its a serious concern for many Americans, apparently including the current administration. Its not a really major cause of the current Georgian situation, primarily because its not a major concern for Russia, and Russia is behind the current Georgian situation, but it is an American concern. I know all about the pipeline, that issue doesn't change or refute anything in my previous statement. It also certainly isn't the only issue. Even without the pipeline being an issue at all Georgian nationalism, Russian imperialism, and the South Ossetians desire to break away from Georgia would all be issues.