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Politics : Politics of Energy -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (2482)	9/19/2008 11:56:26 AM
From: TimF	Respond to of 86356

Okay, if you look at the long haul. But lately ... I don't think so. That happens with a lot of moments. Often after they have achieved their initial aims (or their initial large specific publicly stated aims). At the beginning some serious perceived (and often real) problem inspires and gives strength to a movement to deal with the problem. But over time people who mainly associate with people of like minds on the general issue can loose a sense of perspective about it. Also once the initial major specific aims are achieved, its unlikely the organization will say "we won", and disband. They look for other things to go after. They've got the low hanging fruit of large gains for their ideas with relatively modest pain in other areas, now they go after issues that give less gain, more pain, or both. And if they help create legal and regulatory tools to block things they don't like, than even if the specific people or organizations don't use those tools in a negative or unreasonable way, others can pick them up, and use them to impose costs and generally block progress.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (2482)	9/19/2008 12:25:36 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 86356

Okay, how many years? Some people say 20... I doubt that for 'totally green'. But we can certainly become oil independent. Yes they do. Some of those are dependent on subsidies. Not true with oil and natural gas, most of whose subsidies simply allow quicker deduction of expenses than normal. Commercially they essentially get an investment tax credit... which is currently up in the air on renewal. The oil companies get a percentage of our military budget, they get low cost leases, they get depreciation allowences, they get 'other stuff'. You probably don't want to count the military expense (though it is very real) but even if you don't then the difference is at the margin. Okay, if you look at the long haul. But lately ... I don't think so. You can only look at the environmental movements moves to block solar in southern CA. I'm sure that 30 years ago folks like you were thinking the environmental movement was over the top also. There are checks on the nuttier stuff.