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Politics : GOPwinger Lies/Distortions/Omissions/Perversions of Truth -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: geode00 who wrote (144273)	10/30/2008 5:42:27 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 173976

Government is necessary for society to exist and is very much part of society. Some government is necessary for a modern complex society to function well (not to exist, but than neither of us want to merely have society exist), but not 5 or 6 trillion in government. Part of society? You could say that, but part of something isn't equal to the whole, and can't reasonably be substituted for the whole as if they where the same thing. Taxes are, again, one of the costs of living in society. Only a small fraction of the taxes we pay are legitimately the cost of living in society. Society would march along just fine if government spending and taxes had never exceeded half or even a quarter of what they are now. You seem to be arguing that ALL of what we pay, and all of what the government spends is part of the cost that is necessary in order to have a functioning society but that's just nonsense. Really do you think the taxes for a program to force the price of milk up is legitimately part of the "cost of living in society", and that if we don't like it, we should impoverish ourselves or leave the country? What nonsense. Do you think society would collapse without corporate welfare? That's crazy. Would we have anarchy and devastation across the country without all the pork projects that congress votes for? Of course not. I never said we spend well over $5 trillion on sidewalks and storm drains. Of course you didn't, but those and a few other examples are what you give to justify spending over $5tril. . Again, why don't YOU suggest to your town that you will make all the streets private It seems you like attacking straw men. I didn't call for making them private, in fact I directly said it wouldn't work well for most streets. You will have to put up toll booths. Not that I support making all or most roads private, but private roads don't have to be toll roads. Local courts for housing developments often are private and don't charge tolls. Long limited access highways can charge tolls. Other types of roads, probably don't have any good private business model. Are you saying that you are for or against the bailout? Against. You didn't like the idea of AIG receiving a bill for the bailout money so you aren't making any sense. I don't like bailing out companies, but once you give them the money its theirs, you don't have a legitimate claim to bill them for it. (AIG isn't the best example on this issue since much of the money was a loan, but even loans often have terms limiting when the money can be demanded.) "Also note that "self funded" is irrelevant, and in an important sense simply false." WHAT? Now you're just arguing semantics. No I'm arguing an important point of substance. Call it self funded or not as you wish (what to call it would be a semantic issue), but "self-funded", doesn't make the spending any less expensive or any less of a burden. "That would be an enormous tax increase, and would have quite negative results." No, those who make more money have been getting away without paying their fair share. 1 - Paying their fair share or not, is a separate and mostly unrelated point. Whether or not its considered fair, such a large tax increase would be damaging. 2 - Fair is mostly subjective. 3 - In terms of all federal taxes combined, the wealthy pay a larger portion of the tax burden, a larger amount per person, and a larger portion of their income.