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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (93392)	11/3/2008 2:26:48 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541735

other than it an Luxembourg the standard of living in the Europe is lower than ours. Judged how? GDP/capita is higher in the US, sure, but that's an exceedingly poor way to measure the standard of living of actual people. Remember, we're not talking about the top 5% here: a statement like that really implies the average, i.e. the median. PPP is also not sufficient, unless it takes into account what the money is spent on - unless you assume that all spending is discretionary and the only criteria is cost, without taking into account preference or need. A classic example is South Africa, where PPP looks superb until you account for the need for every middle-class family to buy electronic surveillance linked to an armed-response security firm for their house. I'm not saying Britain's is necessarily better, note: but there are several countries in Europe that I would suggest have median lifestyles way above most lifestyles in the US or UK. All the Scandinavian nations, Switzerland of course, Austria, and if you discount the former East Germany then what was West Germany do. Possibly even Holland and France. For example, how would you value a Danish-level welfare state in standard of living? Tax-funded healthcare from cradle to grave, so no one is ever made bankrupt by health costs? Not just at the cost, remember, but for its effect on people's mood and temper, on their sense of security and self-worth? Incidentally I don't take items like extremely large cars as necessarily denoting a 'higher standard of living'. Higher consumption does not automatically imply higher standard: and these days nowhere in the west is short of any such goods at reasonable prices, for those that want them. An area where the US IMO does really score is the space available at what seem to me ludicrously low prices. Obviously this is a by-product of the sheer size of the country, but it does mean that equivalent housing is far cheaper than most other places in the world. But, you know, even here we manage: and because most people compare their dwelling not against the houses in Beverly Hills but the ones next door it doesn't really have much effect.

To: TimF who wrote (93392)	11/3/2008 5:11:30 PM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541735

>>I didn't say it isn't, but its not double, and other than it an Luxembourg the standard of living in the Europe is lower than ours.<< Tim - I never said Norway's standard of living was double ours. I said that according to my recent research, their GDP per capita was roughly double ours in 2007. Measuring standards of living isn't an exact science. But it certainly can't be done only by looking at GDP. Here's a Wiki page that uses the Human Development Index as a measure of standards of living. It shows the US behind a bunch of European countries, plus Canada, Australia, and Japan. I won't claim that the HDI approach is the only valid one, but I find it ridiculous to think that we could meaningfully measure standards of living based solely on how much stuff individuals are able to buy. - Allen