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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (435368)	11/17/2008 7:48:39 PM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 1587202

And many neos including you started out as liberals Its called maturation. And the process can go on throughout life. Many people find raising kids makes them more conservative. Being a parent makes them think about the fact conservative values are protective of kids, liberal values put them in danger. Starting out as a socialist did not stop Mussolini from becoming a fascist even thought the two ideologies are very different. The concept is that the state is omnipotent and dominates individuals. The concept of fascism is the importance of the homeland. Its the difference between national socialism and international socialism. Even international socialist countries, Communist China, the USSR, NK, etc. had their nationalist features. Take a look at the policy of the Woodrow Wilson government which involved under which opponents of his administration were oppressed in every way. Look at FDR's use of concentration camps. That was America's racism coming to the surface. Had there been a GOP president the same thing would have happened. I have news for you - Wilson was proceeded by a long string of mostly Republican Presidents. He segregated govt offices, segregated the Navy which had been integrated from the beginning, banned blacks from combat duties in the Army (which they'd had during the Revolution, Civil War, and Indian wars). In addition to putting Japanese-Americans in camps, FDR's FHA invented red-lining. His farm support programs were for white farmers only also. Although in the United States informal discrimination and segregation have always existed, the practice called "redlining" began with the National Housing Act of 1934, which established the Federal Housing Administration (FHA).[6] The federal government contributed to the early decay of inner city neighborhoods by withholding mortgage capital and making it difficult for these neighborhoods to attract and retain families able to purchase homes. en.wikipedia.org It does not....liberals never invoke nationalism, militarism and patriotism like you guys do. In fact, you drive us nuts with that stuff. The important thing to remember is that facism is conservatism run amok. That means you all need to keep a tight control over stuff like militarism and nationalism so you don't take it too far. Nonsense. Fascism is simply national socialism.

To: tejek who wrote (435368)	11/17/2008 10:50:21 PM
From: i-node	3 Recommendations Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 1587202

>> Starting out as a socialist did not stop Mussolini from becoming a fascist even thought the two ideologies are very different. That's the point. Fascism and liberalism are much closer on the fundamentals that fascism and conservatism -- on the important characteristics. Your claim might be supportable had fascism left the precepts of socialism behind, but it did not -- it INCORPORATED the precepts of socialism. One need only take a quite look at the Twenty Five Points of Hitler's Nazi Party, which included -- - All citizens must possess equal rights and duties - That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished - We demand the nationalization of all trusts. - We demand profit-sharing in large industries. - We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions. - We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities. - We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. - In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. - The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young. - We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. [This is, of course, what we've just witnessed in the Obama campaign, i.e., the stifling of free speech] - In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations. Fully half of Hitlers 25 points are in direct alignment with modern-day progressivism found in this country. The concept of fascism is the importance of the homeland. All citizens must be committed to its defense and must show loyalty to the symbols that represent it. This remark is somewhat twisted from the true concepts of fascism; all citizens need not be committed to its defense or even show loyalty. When you straighten out the concept you've presented, you end up with something roughly equivalent to patriotism, although neither conservatives nor fascists demand patriotism. That was America's racism coming to the surface. Had there been a GOP president the same thing would have happened. It wasn't racism. It was squelching dissent. More people were arrested and locked up for political reasons in the US in the first two years of Wilson's presidency than were in the first 10 years of Mussolini's fascist regime. It does not....liberals never invoke nationalism, militarism and patriotism like you guys do. In fact, you drive us nuts with that stuff. The important thing to remember is that facism is conservatism run amok. This is what you (collectively) don't understand. This militarism isn't fundamental as a characteristic of fascism; it is merely a means to an end -- without "militarism" you cannot accomplish the intended ends of fascism. This is one of the concepts that liberals are totally confused about: American conservatives believe in a strong military, fascism requires a strong military, therefore American conservatives are fascists. It doesn't work that way, this is a false logical conclusion that only liberals can conceive of. I know of no conservative who "demands" patriotism; however, many conservatives are disgusted by those who receive the benefits of living in the United States yet have no allegiance to it. I am among that group. As to "nationalism", it is an outgrowth of popular sovereignty which was expressed in this country by everyone from Ben Franklin to Mark Twain.