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Politics : Politics of Energy -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (3301)	12/2/2008 6:18:01 PM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 86352

There certainly are. But at bottom, its manmade CO2 that is claimed that really matters. Yes. That is the new thing. And the levels of CO2 are higher now than they have been for at least hundreds of thousands of years. And plausibly since this ice age cycle began over 2 mya. Is anything unprecedented really happening at the higher latitudes? Depends on what you mean by "unprecedented." Very little is unprecedented in the history of the earth as far as climate is concerned. Things are always changing and people can pick out this or that change and say of it, that its a sign of some new change. Now they say, Arctic ice is melting, while Antarctic ice is growing. Antarctic ice is growing on the east side. A part of the reason for that is that precipitation is falling there that used to fall in Australia. It is warming in Antarctica too, but not enough to turn that precipitation into rain. It isn't just one thing or another--it is a confluence of things. Not just ice melting, but more extreme weather events, bird migration patterns changing, plant habitats moving, earlier snow melting in mountains, more evaporation from dams, more droughts and desertification--yeah, I know, all of these things are just coincidences, have nothing to do with any warming--it's all just a coincidence that they are all consistent with it. Or it is a conspiracy of lefty scientists who have a thingy against the fossil fuel companies. About other glaciers, the Alpine glaciers are shrinking now, but are bigger than they were in Roman times. And 7000 ya, there were NO glaciers in the Alps. I didn't say anything about other glaciers, but--sure there have been times when there haven't been glaciers. There have have been times when there hasn't been any ice at all. There have also be times when the surface of virtually the entire earth was covered with ice. so what. The issue today is the CO2 that we are putting into the atmosphere today, and whether or not that CO2 will affect (is already affecting) the climate. I say yes it is, you say no it's not. Sounds like a standoff. The only problem with that is that the evidence convinces most people today that my POV is right. You're saying people who believe the things you believe are intelligent and those don't are stupid. I'm sure that is a comforting, doubt-dismissing belief. Sometimes that is true. Actually, I don't think you are "stupid." But I do think you put blinders on, and don't pursue some questions vigorously enough. I can tell from the way you write that I have read more than you have about this stuff. Seems to me you thought everything would be just swingingly wonderful in Iraq once Saddam was gone, didn't you? And that Bush was the cat's meow. good for you. Don't you ever suspect that perhaps you need to think about the world a little more rigorously?