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To: bentway who wrote (174116)	12/28/2008 8:30:03 PM
From: polarisnh	Respond to of 306849

bentway, That is one revealing map that you have provided there. Thank you. Cheers, Steve

To: bentway who wrote (174116)	12/28/2008 9:53:50 PM
From: Schnullie	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 306849

Israel is NOT "the Jews". I can remember the year that Yasser Arafat finally learned not to rail against "the Jews" - it was 1975. "We're not anti-semitic." he implored. "We're anti-Zionist." The Europeans and U.S. leftists (who were largely Jewish) were turning in their graves everytime he fumed about the freakin' Jooze, and somehow managed to get through to him that he was losing points with the world population (this was only 1 generation removed from the Holocaust). Have a look at a kindergarten book from the West Bank and tell me this isn't anti-semitic. Your maps are quite telling. But what happened to the maps from 1,000 BCE, from Greek occupation days, from Christ's time, from centuries after Christ's time. In fact, these were Jewish lands for two millenia (that's 2,000 years) before Islam imposed itself on the region and the world. Now THERE'S some thugs. I particularly like your map showing the Israeli-Palestinian boundary after 1967. That was the year that Nasser closed the canal and the Red Sea ports, railed about "throwing the Jews into the Sea", while 5 Arab armies mobilized on Israel's borders. Yes, the borders were expanded "somewhat" after that. I can almost hear you clenching your teeth: Damn Jews, how dare they defend themselves. You've got issues, dude.

To: bentway who wrote (174116)	12/28/2008 10:03:20 PM
From: Gary Mohilner	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

You fail to show that if Israel had wished, the Suez Canal, much of Jordan, Syria, as well as Egypt could have been retained as after being attacked they conquered all that land. Israel has been willing to surrender land for peace, but Hamas vows to destroy them. Even their own people have largely shunned Hamas, but of course they continue to be armed by the likes of Iran. If you equate Hamas with Al Queda and their leadership with bin Laden and his senior leadership, if they fired missiles at you and vowed your destruction would you strike back. Each time Hamas establishes a truce, it's only a matter of time till they've rearmed and are firing new missiles, or using human bombs, which are even more dangerous typically. Israel no doubt extracts terrible losses for every loss of Israeli life, but if there were no attacks, there would be no loss at all. As of today, they are truly the only ally we have in the Middle East, if the U.S. truly abandoned them, the next time they go to war against those who attack or help stage those who attack them, they just might keep the territory they conquer. To the best of my knowledge, Israel has never attacked without first being attacked itself. Their response might be overkill, but what would you do if you thought you were targeting bin Laden and his henchmen. Another question you might ask, before Israel became Israel many thought it should be named Palestine. Many of the inhabitants were nomads and most identified their home as Jordan. Those living there only identified themselves as Palestinian's after Israel chose the name Israel rather than Palestine. From day one of the creation of Israel they would have welcomed peace, but it was never offered to them by someone who could really make it happen. If this were the genocide that's occurring in Darfur it's doubtful anyone would care, but even I as a Jew don't want to see the useless killing of the Palestinian's, but if intelligence told you that both Hamas leadership and weaponry was in the area that's to be attacked, would you not attack with all you had. Suppose we change that to bin Ladin, his leadership, and his weapons. I never like to see the loss of life, but if Hamas and the Palestinians under it don't attack, there would be no loss of life. Gary