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To: Real Man who wrote (16402)	1/18/2009 2:20:17 AM
From: dybdahl	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 71475

In USA and Europe, the perception of socialism is very different. In Europe, the general attitude is, that socialism is not possible without telling people what to think and stealing their property, and therefore oppression is absolutely needed to create socialism. The Soviet Union took time to create, and maybe some stupid people thought that everybody would become socialists quickly, but it is not possible to create a socialist state without violence and oppression. Most of those that vote for socialist parties today, argue that "they're not really socialist, they only want to make the state bigger". To me, socialism is the current world record holder of mass murder ideology. The main difference between socialism and nazism is, that socialism has killed a lot more people. I got very offended by many Americans until I realized, that in USA, socialism is used to describe a mechanism in society that USA already has. I'd call it socialism when the state forcefully make people leave their home in order to create a new highway. I would not call it socialism to tax people and spend the money. Socialism in the sense "an economic system based on state ownership of capital" or "An economic system in which the basic means of production are primarily owned and controlled collectively", is the same as oppression and failure to me. The system is so far from the human psychology, that history rewriting, history destruction, control of news distribution, undercover agents etc. are simply unavoidable. I have experienced so many believers in socialism, and had many discussions with them, and I really cannot distinguish Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other kinds of socialism. To me, the Cubans were just lucky, that they didn't have more fatalities.

To: Real Man who wrote (16402)	1/18/2009 2:34:31 AM
From: dybdahl	Respond to of 71475

"the more socialism you have, the less the long term economic growth will be" Most dictionaries that I have, cannot make "more or less" socialism. So I assume, that you mean taxing, monopolies and state ownership. You should read this book about Health Care by Michael E Porter: books.google.dk There are some mechanisms in a market that can be destructive for improvements in the long term. That's why we regulate markets. A good nation includes a mix, where mechanisms are selected based on their qualities, and not by ideology. The most important criteria is to preserve freedom of choice, and to preserve the ability to change the system by votes. A good example is kindergartens and schools. If the states or cities have a monopoly, they can detect children with problems early, and help them to ensure, that they don't grow up as criminals. However, if the parents can move the children from school to school, and the schools are not allowed to cooperate without the permission from the parents, these children may have a very hard time ahead. It is definitely good for society when a child grows up to become a tax payer instead of a criminal, and the difference is a small expense, but it is lack of freedom of choice for the parents.