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Politics : President Barack Obama -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (50155)	2/7/2009 5:14:43 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

'1/2 the kids in this country do not graduate from high school." The other half we call "Democrats".

To: koan who wrote (50155)	2/7/2009 6:21:11 PM
From: Gary Mohilner	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

We agree on that completely. I believe we need to go even further wrt what's being taught. One size does not fit all, education needs to be adapted to what the student wants and needs, there are many brilliant people in certain areas who cannot, or will not understand things like algebra. In Japan, students are tested early and the direction their lives take are based on those tests. I'm not saying this is perfect either, but the reality is, everyone's not suited to be either a PhD, or a plumber, etc. While I believe people need to understand the importance of math if they wish to go into certain occupations. It was said that Werner Von Braun was a terrible math student who dreamed of space travel until a teacher pointed out that to do it very high powered math was required, he almost immediately became an outstanding math student. Some time all that's needed is showing the relevance, but often what a student wants has absolutely nothing to do with what's being taught. Our schools have largely abandoned shop classes, yet we need all sorts of people who need to be trained to use their hands as well as their minds. When was the last time many of us did an algebra problem? I frankly don't remember the last time I used high powered math when not working with kids, and I'm a retired engineer. I'm not saying, take Algebra out of education, what I'm suggesting is finding out what direction students are looking to take and tailor their educations in that direction. I also believe that no one should be permitted to get a B.A. or B.S. that offers no occupational possibilities if they don't at minimum have a minor that does. Perhaps it's a matter of adjusting goals, if someone wishes a History Major, and it's recognized that the only jobs available for such majors require a PhD, then a B.A. shouldn't even be available in the major. If on the other hand the person wants to teach history, and a Bachelor or Masters is adequate, go for the degree in Education with a minor in History, then we'd get teachers who've at least learned how to teach. Our schools are often so desperate for teachers that they'll hire people who've never had an education class. Often to become tenured they must take them, but the point is, we put people who don't know anything about teaching in the classroom then wonder why students don't learn. Of course it's a wonder that they do even with a skilled teacher when we insist that the class consist of people who test from the highest to the lowest on the scale in prior knowledge of the subject being taught. I've assisted at a Jr. High level where kids had been expelled from school, we tried to teach what was the curriculum for the students, but how do you teach Algebra to students who cannot add, subtract, multiply and divide. My point is that students are constantly passed on who haven't mastered basics, they don't stand a chance at higher level applications. When someone graduates grade school to go to Jr. High, how can they learn if reading or doing math at 3rd grade level, or worse. These people will remain behind, and because they don't understand the basics, they'll become a problem in almost every class they attend, they may pass, but only because teachers are told not to hold kids back. We need to teach kids at rates where they're capable of learning at. The brightest not only should be in the accelerated classes, but if they can pass the exams going in, they should skip to the next. We may find that some of our best readers cannot do basic math, or vice versa, the point is if they cannot do something that's a prerequisite of the next class they'll just be further behind at the end of that class. Advancement needs to be based on having the capability, not merely being enrolled in the class. I'm reminded of the student taking some graduate courses at MIT. He was told he needed an undergraduate Vector Analysis course, after arguing a bit he finally caved in and attended the class. It took six weeks, but he finally told the instructor he was misinterpreting the author, the instructor objected until he was told to check his roll sheet. Actually it was probably worthwhile as he learned that while his book was well written, it could be misinterpreted. He didn't have to finish the course. My point is, our schools must become much more dynamic. The hardest thing about this is parents who all want their kids in the most advanced classes, even if they have no idea what they're doing in the class. We need to change this so teachers and parents do what's best for the kids. Too many schools cave in to the desires of parents and students rather than insisting they be ready to do what they're asking for. I'll get off my soap box now. Gary